ISU Student and Champion Golfer Celia Barquin Arozamena Murdered at Coldwater Golf Course

[bawbie]

Unless there's objection, I'm going to change the thread title to reference Celia's name.

 

[Tre4ISU]

In St Paul Minnesota they built an apartment complex in an industrial area where homeless people are free to live and drink themselves to death if they desire. That is not hyperbole.

The city has acknowledged that some folks don't want help, will always be addicted and homeless, and it's cheaper to house them until their natural death than it is to deal with them in the criminal justice system.

And that seems practical. Yes, not everyone can find the help they need but a lot of these people either don't want help or they can't get over the hump. I'd like to see the analysis, though, of whether this was a net gain or not.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Unless there's objection, I'm going to change the thread title to reference Celia's name.

This has kind of gone off the rails so maybe a new one is in order?

 

[1100011CS]

I am going to disagree. If this guy is in a homeless shelter or psychicatric clinic a life xcould have been saved.

Why would being in a homeless shelter change this situation other than maybe it's farther from the golf course? He would have killed someone closer to the shelter. I wouldn't disagree on the psychiatric clinic.

 

[Al_4_State]

In St Paul Minnesota they built an apartment complex in an industrial area where homeless people are free to live and drink themselves to death if they desire. That is not hyperbole.

The city has acknowledged that some folks don't want help, will always be addicted and homeless, and it's cheaper to house them until their natural death than it is to deal with them in the criminal justice system.

These facilities should really be more common. I've been a big advocate for "drug ranches", or secured facilities where addicts can use whatever it is they do until they croak.

Like you said, some people don't want help. Why fight it?

 

[herbicide]

Awareness is at an all-time high, that is why people perceive (violence, racism, etc.) to be worse now than before - although it is not.

I didn't want to touch on that for risk of political responses...

 

[FinalFourCy]

These "numbers" are what they are. It doesn't matter "who" drives the costs, the facts show without question that it is more expensive to administer the death penalty than a life in prison sentence.

You can argue if it is worth it or not, as that is a separate argument that I will not get into here or anywhere else. What you cannot argue that it is less expensive than life in prison, because it is simply not.

No, what you cannot argue against is that it’s a bit of circular logic to use high cost as a reason to be against the death penalty. You’ve yet to do anything other than confuse saying it’s circular logic with saying the numbers were fabricated.

 

[Gunnerclone]

I think the death penalty should only apply if the defendant willingly admits to the crime and cooperates fully. If that means criminals lie to get lip then so be it. At least the wrongly accused/prosecuted still keep their lives.

 

[MeowingCows]

These facilities should really be more common. I've been a big advocate for "drug ranches", or secured facilities where addicts can use whatever it is they do until they croak.

Like you said, some people don't want help. Why fight it?

It does seem like a generally good idea to take those groups of similar people who may be negatively burdenous to society and effectively quarantine them to their own area (in what appears to be a voluntary manner, anyway). There's definitely some logic to that.

 

[1100011CS]

No doubt this is right, but something like this makes me so mad that I go through some probably irrational thoughts.
- I get tired of the mentally ill defense with violent crimes. As far as I'm concerned, any person that can commit some crimes like this is mentally ill to some extent. Mentally healthy people don't do that to another human being
- Sure bulldozing the encampment doesn't solve any root causes, but I think it is fair to question why the city/LE would let a group of people who are going to be more prone to drug/alcohol consumption, mental health issues, and potential for violence squat and concentrate in an area, particularly one that is relatively secluded yet adjacent to areas frequented by people, jogging/biking trails. Does it prevent something like this? Doubt it, but I do think there is a danger in allowing an encampment.
-There are two basic sides to both the incarceration and forcible commitment for mental health issues. One is the punishment/rehabilitation (incarceration) and treatment (mental health) side. That seems to get a bulk of the attention and drive decisions. Public safety is not taken into consideration enough in my opinion in theses cases. It is not someone's fault if they have a severe mental health issue that makes them dangerous to society. They still need to be committed for the sake of public safety.
-True, this guys rap sheet isn't filled with acts that come close to something this awful, but at some point it becomes clear that a POS like this has no interest in ever abiding by the law or being anything but a danger and a drag on society. Sentence him based on this, which should be obvious.
-Mental health funding - it's been covered well here.
-Prison overcrowding - as most have said, some prison sentences for non-violent offenses need to be abolished. As for the violent offenders and overcrowding, who gives a ****? Five of pieces of trash like this in an 8'x8' cell with two bunks works for me.

I know some of this may be irrational, but I think many of us are just so pissed off right now it helps to try to reach for anything that can be done.

Actually, I think I agree with all of your points.

 

[brianhos]

Reading Pollards email just now gave me tears.

 

[Cyballzz]

These facilities should really be more common. I've been a big advocate for "drug ranches", or secured facilities where addicts can use whatever it is they do until they croak.

Like you said, some people don't want help. Why fight it?

George Carlin had this covered:

 

[ISUCubswin]

Twitter (and a few posts on here) seem to reference a time in Ames where this never happened...

Wasn’t there a case in the early 1990s when two brothers killed a woman and chopped her head off? And I could’ve sworn we’ve had weird bomb crap happen in the 70ish

Drives me insane with people thinking it’s a community issue...it’s one of the nicest and most peaceful communities in the US. I think the same of Ankeny and they’ve had a rough go of things the past couple weeks. It doesn’t make it a community issue, just an individual person issue.

You really shouldn’t feel any different about going about your business in Ames as you did yesterday. This isn’t a serial issue we have going on, it’s one massive ass hole who’s in prison and will never be an issue again.

 

[1100011CS]

[QUOTE

Set the whole thing on fire. Even if they're still in it.

="FinalFourCy, post: 6304819, member: 37336"]Right back at you.
There are plenty here against moving it, while only one that suggested bulldozing or setting aflame, and even he didn’t ask the homeless be in it.

Don’t be obtuse. His primary point was to move and destroy the camp (bulldoze or fire), not to murder them.[/QUOTE]

 

[herbicide]

No, what you cannot argue against is that it’s a bit of circular logic to use high cost as a reason to be against the death penalty. You’ve yet to do anything other than confuse saying it’s circular logic with saying the numbers were fabricated.

JFC. It is NOT CIRCULAR LOGIC to say the death penalty costs more than life in prison.

From the previous link:

Examples From Studies. Cases without the death penalty cost $740,000, while cases where the death penalty is sought cost $1.26 million. Maintaining each death row prisoner costs taxpayers $90,000 more per year than a prisoner in general population.

I don't know what else to say here. 1.26M > 740K.

 

[1100011CS]

These facilities should really be more common. I've been a big advocate for "drug ranches", or secured facilities where addicts can use whatever it is they do until they croak.

Like you said, some people don't want help. Why fight it?

We could build walls around them too. Really big walls. The biggest walls.

 

[Dandy]

I think the death penalty should only apply if the defendant willingly admits to the crime and cooperates fully. If that means criminals lie to get lip then so be it. At least the wrongly accused/prosecuted still keep their lives.

As long as this doesn’t drive suicidal people to do awful things just so the govt will kill them.

 

[Colorado]

Reading Pollards email just now gave me tears.

Same

 

[Gossamer]

I hate this thread

 

[Mr Janny]

Twitter (and a few posts on here) seem to reference a time in Ames where this never happened...

Wasn’t there a case in the early 1990s when two brothers killed a woman and chopped her head off? And I could’ve sworn we’ve had weird bomb crap happen in the 70ish

Drives me insane with people thinking it’s a community issue...it’s one of the nicest and most peaceful communities in the US. I think the same of Ankeny and they’ve had a rough go of things the past couple weeks. It doesn’t make it a community issue, just an individual person issue.

You really shouldn’t feel any different about going about your business in Ames as you did yesterday. This isn’t a serial issue we have going on, it’s one massive ass hole who’s in prison and will never be an issue again.

Yeah, cut her head off and tried to run it over with a car to destroy the evidence. It didn't work. I can't remember many other details, but it definitely happened.