Key Iowa State Stats

[Ficklone02]

I will go right back to KO. name one player that has lined up across from KO and was better than KO?
Burris' false starts Hicks tripping...none of those have stalled drives or prevented scoring. Mostly because they are 5 yard penalties or have been declined.

Again, we only have 3 games' worth of data to derive our opinions, but I think at the end of the season if you went over the penalties and analyzed them you would find that a majority of the penalties may not have been correctable because the guy on the other side just plain beat us.

 

[AlleyAddict]

Yards Per Game Total -106th in the country (120 teams)

I've got your back :wink:

 

[jbhtexas]

I see offsides and false starts as compensation penalties just as much as mental errors. If the guy across from you is better, it might cause you to try and get a head start on the play.

Jumping before the snap count on offensive is a mental mistake. Defense offside is usually the result of getting suckered by the QB's cadence, and not going off the ball movement...another mental mistake.

 

[tazclone]

Are you not reading what I am saying? Nowhere am I saying that it doesn't hurt. Let me repeat. Penalties HURT Iowa State. But penalties don't throw 5 INT's in 2 games. Penalties don't stop us from passing for more than 100 yards against UNI. A bad UNI passing defense.

We have to get to the redzone more often than 3 times a game if we are going to beat anybody this year! That stat is alarming! 3 redzone trips a game? That's brutal

1. Two of AA's INTs came after penalties in the red zone On came on 2nd and 25 and the other came on 4th and 12 following 3rd and twenty. Both instances the defense has 10-15 yards they have to defned and we are one dimensional. Both instances, AA has to throw the 15-20 pass to get the first down. We know AA doesn't throw that pass well. Especially in a compressed area.
2. Like I pointed out earlier, it would be 16 (4.0/game)red zone trips if it weren't for plays erased by penalties. That is better than average For example. Last year TT averaged 4.7 red zone trip/ game last year and were ranked third behind BSU(5.9) and BYU (4.76)

 

[statsaholic]

My point is that if we had a good offense, 6 penalties a game (which is only 4 on offense) isn't going to kill us. I think penalties is an excuse for a horrible offense. It makes us feel better to say penalties are killing us rather than just saying our offense stinks. The #'s don't lie. 106th in ypg is horrible. Penalties don't change that at all

I get your point but disagree about the penalty thing not changing it. Penalties that kill drives mean less offensive opportunities, and therefore fewer yards per game. They sort of go somewhat together.

 

[Tedcyclone]

great post...

 

[tazclone]

Again, we only have 3 games' worth of data to derive our opinions, but I think at the end of the season if you went over the penalties and analyzed them you would find that a majority of the penalties may not have been correctable because the guy on the other side just plain beat us.

Considering we are talking about the current offensive woes, I am looking at the penalties in the four games that we have played.

You didn't answer my question though. Name one player that has lined up across from KO that is/was more talented than him? If it is a talent issue than it should be easy. I can think of one of KOs penalties that falls into that category and that was against Klug and iowa. Even then it was due to a stunt because he focused too much on AC. That is more mental than physical. For KO most of his game is mental and making sure he is in the right position. Physically, he is better than anyone he will play. And every hold...he didn't have to hold the player but he did.False starts are just unacceptable.

 

[tazclone]

Come again? A holding penalty is worse than a turnover? Wow

You are correct, i meant to delete turnover and didn't. Ahold is worse than all of those others. If it isn't then tell me why penalties aren't declined more on 1st and second down. Coaches would rather put you at 1st and 20 than 2nd and 10 Or 2nd and 20 than 3rd and 10. They do that because it is easier to defend and harder for the offense.

 

[Ficklone02]

Considering we are talking about the current offensive woes, I am looking at the penalties in the four games that we have played.

You didn't answer my question though. Name one player that has lined up across from KO that is/was more talented than him? If it is a talent issue than it should be easy. I can think of one of KOs penalties that falls into that category and that was against Klug and iowa. Even then it was due to a stunt because he focused too much on AC. That is more mental than physical. For KO most of his game is mental and making sure he is in the right position. Physically, he is better than anyone he will play. And every hold...he didn't have to hold the player but he did.False starts are just unacceptable.

We're making different arguments. I made the comment that I think there's more to penalties than just mental errors and I would like to see people consider that and acknowledge it more often. I made no comments specific to ISU's situation, because thats not the point I was trying to make, although I do mostly agree with the OP.

 

[Clones85']

I really think I need to reword things better. I am not in any way shape or form saying that penalties are no big deal. They are a big deal. They hurt drives.

My reason for the OP was to show that we have bigger concerns right now on offense than penalties

 

[tazclone]

We're making different arguments. I made the comment that I think there's more to penalties than just mental errors and I would like to see people consider that and acknowledge it more often. I made no comments specific to ISU's situation, because thats not the point I was trying to make, although I do mostly agree with the OP.

And i am just taking your comment and tieing it into the current discussion. IMO- It doesn't apply in 90% of the penalties this year. Some yes but most of our penalties are mental. The biggest issue is they happen on the wrong side of the field

 

[tazclone]

I really think I need to reword things better. I am not in any way shape or form saying that penalties are no big deal. They are a big deal. They hurt drives.

My reason for the OP was to show that we have bigger concerns right now on offense than penalties

They are #3 on my list right behind WR and QB play but in front of OL and RB play. Not sure where play calling fits in but it is up there

 

[ISUFan22]

I really think I need to reword things better.

Yes, you do (was going to PM you yesterday and say the same thing regarding the leaving at halftime thread). I know you and you're smarter than what is being conveyed.

The stats go right along with penalties being a huge reason the offense stinks. There is really no disputing the facts and the red zone penalty/no penalty percentages.

Penalties are not the only reason - but they are definitely a significant reason.

At any rate, the majority of this thread is splitting hairs. Everyone pretty much agrees penalties are a problem. The mild "debate" has been over how big of a problem. It's still a significant enough of a problem that it's taking points off the board.

Any consistent mistake that directly impacts the score of the game is a very significant one. Thread over. :smile:

 

[ahaselhu]

The difference between most teams getting in the red zone 4+ times per game and us getting in the red zone 4+ times per game, is that those other teams can score touchdowns without even being in the red zone. We don't have that big play ability, for the most part.

So even if we didn't have the red zone penalties and converted all of our red zone trips into touchdowns, we're looking at 28 points per game. The best teams in the nation in the red zone last year only converted TDs on about 75% of their red zone trips, and averaged about 5.8 points per red zone trip. Average teams got about 4.5 points per red zone trip.

With four red zone trips per game, an above average team would get between 18-24 points per game.

What all this means is that penalties have cost us probably about 4-5 points per game. Not insignificant (we need all the points we can get), but its not likely going to make the difference for this team in most games.

We need to do one of two things:

1. Get get in the red zone a lot more often then the average team AND eliminate the red zone penalties.
2. Develop big play threats.

#2 doesn't seem very likely for this year at this point, so #1 seems to be the place to concentrate our effort. One way is obviously to improve execution on offense. Also, given that our defense is ahead of our offense at this point, it might be good for us to take more chances on the opponents side of the field to try to generate turnovers in our opponents territory and give us more short fields.

 

[dualthreat]

The OP is exactly right. Everyone has penalties. 6-7 penalties is not bad at all. Its just when your offense is so pitiful that you can't overcome a holding penalty.

How many times has Iowa state had a penalty on offense and then still got the first down? I'd say about 1 in 10. Its because we can't manage plays of 15 yards consistently.

 

[Clones85']

The OP is exactly right. Everyone has penalties. 6-7 penalties is not bad at all. Its just when your offense is so pitiful that you can't overcome a holding penalty.

How many times has Iowa state had a penalty on offense and then still got the first down? I'd say about 1 in 10. Its because we can't manage plays of 15 yards consistently.

Exactly. That is what I am trying to say.

 

[tazclone]

The difference between most teams getting in the red zone 4+ times per game and us getting in the red zone 4+ times per game, is that those other teams can score touchdowns without even being in the red zone. We don't have that big play ability, for the most part.

So even if we didn't have the red zone penalties and converted all of our red zone trips into touchdowns, we're looking at 28 points per game. The best teams in the nation in the red zone last year only converted TDs on about 75% of their red zone trips, and averaged about 5.8 points per red zone trip. Average teams got about 4.5 points per red zone trip.

With four red zone trips per game, an above average team would get between 18-24 points per game.

What all this means is that penalties have cost us probably about 4-5 points per game. Not insignificant (we need all the points we can get), but its not likely going to make the difference for this team in most games.

We need to do one of two things:

1. Get get in the red zone a lot more often then the average team AND eliminate the red zone penalties.
2. Develop big play threats.

#2 doesn't seem very likely for this year at this point, so #1 seems to be the place to concentrate our effort. One way is obviously to improve execution on offense. Also, given that our defense is ahead of our offense at this point, it might be good for us to take more chances on the opponents side of the field to try to generate turnovers in our opponents territory and give us more short fields.

Keep in mind, penalties have erased some of our biggest plays

 

[tazclone]

The OP is exactly right. Everyone has penalties. 6-7 penalties is not bad at all. Its just when your offense is so pitiful that you can't overcome a holding penalty.

How many times has Iowa state had a penalty on offense and then still got the first down? I'd say about 1 in 10. Its because we can't manage plays of 15 yards consistently.

I agree but it is when and where our penalties happen that hurt us even more. When they erase positive yardage and big plays, they hurt. When they are in the red zone, they remove points. When they force 3rd and 20, they hurt. 1st and 15 doesn't hurt as much.
The penalties also kill momentum. I am a big believer in momentum in college football. You can see our team stumble when we get a penalty. The next play is usually a disaster