Monday Musings: Lots to learn from the Johnny Orr story
- Thread starter ChrisMWilliams
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Well said CW. I wasn't here for the Orr years, but have come to be so respectful of Orr and what he accomplished.
Perhaps the thing that stands out most to me about Orr's coaching is his trust of players on the court. He let great players play. We clearly see this with Hoiberg in Transfer U, as well as his letting shooters shoot. I heard Hornacek on NPR praise Orr for this.
Wouldn't it be awesome for Orr's players to coach to NCAA national championships and NBA championships this year?
Perhaps the thing that stands out most to me about Orr's coaching is his trust of players on the court. He let great players play. We clearly see this with Hoiberg in Transfer U, as well as his letting shooters shoot. I heard Hornacek on NPR praise Orr for this.
Wouldn't it be awesome for Orr's players to coach to NCAA national championships and NBA championships this year?
Great write-up Chris, and you are absolutely correct about what he may have accomplished if he had the facilities and resources of today. I can't imagine the recruiting he could have done with a separate practice facility and a comparable MBB budget to today's.
For someone who never met Johnny, you captured him very well!
You and Blum must have some great arguments over who is the best writer between you!
You and Blum must have some great arguments over who is the best writer between you!
CW, could you post a link to Coach Orr's retirement speech? The only place I've seen it is during the broadcasts of The Johnny Orr Story. More than anything else, you see there how much Iowa State meant to him. He can hardly bring himself to say the words that he is leaving.
And then he stayed so loyal to Iowa State even after Gene Smith hired Floyd instead of Halihan.
One more thing. In that speech, he makes reference to raising $8m for a facility. What facility? Was this a separate basketball facility that was never built? If so, again, it is amazing that he stayed so loyal to Iowa State.
And then he stayed so loyal to Iowa State even after Gene Smith hired Floyd instead of Halihan.
One more thing. In that speech, he makes reference to raising $8m for a facility. What facility? Was this a separate basketball facility that was never built? If so, again, it is amazing that he stayed so loyal to Iowa State.
The other thing about Johnny that I think gets overlooked was the timing of his retirement. He could have gone another couple of years, but that team had Fred, Loren Meyer, Julo and Hurl. His last year was the year Loren was hit by the train and missed a good chunk of conference play.
Johnny could have rode those guys to quite a few more wins, but he stepped away to allow the program to build off those solid players. I don't believe that Tim Floyd would have had the success he did without Johnny's well timed retirement.
Johnny could have rode those guys to quite a few more wins, but he stepped away to allow the program to build off those solid players. I don't believe that Tim Floyd would have had the success he did without Johnny's well timed retirement.
Chris -
Living down here in Texas, I didn't get to see the Des Moines Register's coverage of Johnny Orr's passing. So for us out-of-staters, could you or somebody post a picture or scan of at least that front page of the paper? Or perhaps is it already on line somewhere that it can be seen?
Thanks.
Living down here in Texas, I didn't get to see the Des Moines Register's coverage of Johnny Orr's passing. So for us out-of-staters, could you or somebody post a picture or scan of at least that front page of the paper? Or perhaps is it already on line somewhere that it can be seen?
Thanks.
Yes. I will do that for you this evening when I get home. Will post it in this thread.
It's Blum by a mile. No conversation needed. I'd be lucky to even get a vote in the top 25!
Fortunately for us, Michigan was taking advantage of Johnny as he was 9 or 10 in the Big Ten BB salaries. Iowa State had a very low salary bar to meet, and we were lucky that Johnny was willing to go to a program that needed building from the ground up. The one thing Johnny did have was a nice building in Hilton.
Growing up in Minnesota, I was a big Gopher basketball fan - which in the 90's was a lot of fun. Before my first year at Iowa State (which aligned with Larry Eustachy's first year), I didn't follow ISU basketball much (other than Tim Floyd's final year as I already knew I was going to go to ISU).
I certainly learned about Johnnie Orr quickly and the impact he had on ISU basketball. At that time I thought it was a cool story and I was certainly impressed, but until the events of this past week, I never fully grasped the magnitude of his true impact.
I really wish I could have experienced Johnnie while he was the head coach, but I am very grateful for getting to learn the depth and quality of a human being and coach that he was. At a time when I was cheering for a team that was eventually found to be cheating, Johnnie was building a program & legacy on integrity and developing young men into quality people.
Thanks for this article Chris, it's appreciated greatly.
I certainly learned about Johnnie Orr quickly and the impact he had on ISU basketball. At that time I thought it was a cool story and I was certainly impressed, but until the events of this past week, I never fully grasped the magnitude of his true impact.
I really wish I could have experienced Johnnie while he was the head coach, but I am very grateful for getting to learn the depth and quality of a human being and coach that he was. At a time when I was cheering for a team that was eventually found to be cheating, Johnnie was building a program & legacy on integrity and developing young men into quality people.
Thanks for this article Chris, it's appreciated greatly.
Good read :yes:
My earliest ISU Basketball memories were of those first Floyd years as well. I wish I could have seen a Johnny team in person.
My earliest ISU Basketball memories were of those first Floyd years as well. I wish I could have seen a Johnny team in person.
Terrific piece, Chris! Luckily for me, I was a student at ISU during the heyday of Johnny-ball, so I got the opportunity to be in Hilton and witness Coach's passion first-hand. He was certainly one-of-a-kind, and your piece is a great reminder of what he stood for.
On a personal note, you've (unknowingly) called me out with this: "If you’re a professional (in any field) reading this and are not happy with your current job, it is never too late to try and change that. Do what you have to do to make yourself excited about going to work every day. Be happy." Thanks.
On a personal note, you've (unknowingly) called me out with this: "If you’re a professional (in any field) reading this and are not happy with your current job, it is never too late to try and change that. Do what you have to do to make yourself excited about going to work every day. Be happy." Thanks.
Chris, great point on "what if" Johnny had the resources that ISU coaches have today. Definitely would have been more banners up there. Heck, throw Sam Mack and Mark Baugh into the "what if" mix and that's a game-changer, too.
I grew up on Johnny Orr basketball. If the 1992 Dream Team were playing at Hilton against a Johnny Orr-coached Cyclone team, they would lose. If Michael Jordan had played at Hilton against Johnny Orr, he would have lost. THAT was Hilton Magic. We didn't expect to lose, no matter who we played. We assumed we'd win. (Let's just not talk about road games.)
It is interesting that Orr only had two winning seasons in the Big 8. That's what made Hilton Magic even greater. Johnny's teams were good, not great. The one exception was the Hornacek-Grayer 1985-86 team. Eustachy, Floyd, and now Hoiberg have generally had slightly better conference-competitive teams. But Johnny did the difficult work of laying the foundation. And those 20 wins against ranked opponents at Hilton? Sheer beauty. All those game-winning in-bounds plays? Classic. Johnny Orr made it all fun.
There is no question in my mind that Johnny is the most important Cyclone of all time. Hoiberg will probably make a great argument on that in the years to come, but for now for longevity, commitment, spirit, fun, and success, Johnny Orr is my favorite all-time Cyclone! Thank you, Johnny, for a ton of fun!
I grew up on Johnny Orr basketball. If the 1992 Dream Team were playing at Hilton against a Johnny Orr-coached Cyclone team, they would lose. If Michael Jordan had played at Hilton against Johnny Orr, he would have lost. THAT was Hilton Magic. We didn't expect to lose, no matter who we played. We assumed we'd win. (Let's just not talk about road games.)
It is interesting that Orr only had two winning seasons in the Big 8. That's what made Hilton Magic even greater. Johnny's teams were good, not great. The one exception was the Hornacek-Grayer 1985-86 team. Eustachy, Floyd, and now Hoiberg have generally had slightly better conference-competitive teams. But Johnny did the difficult work of laying the foundation. And those 20 wins against ranked opponents at Hilton? Sheer beauty. All those game-winning in-bounds plays? Classic. Johnny Orr made it all fun.
There is no question in my mind that Johnny is the most important Cyclone of all time. Hoiberg will probably make a great argument on that in the years to come, but for now for longevity, commitment, spirit, fun, and success, Johnny Orr is my favorite all-time Cyclone! Thank you, Johnny, for a ton of fun!
Nice article Chris. I feel a little sorry for you younger folks who weren't able to experience him live.
Johnny meant so much to all of us back then and it will always be so. He was the Moses of Iowa State.
At times I've been frustrated with how hard some of our fans have been on past coaches because they didn't win fast enough or had player issues. It took Johnny years to get this program turned around and it certainly wasn't a linear line. He also never got more then 22 or 23 wins in a season. The great thing about Johnny however was that sense of humor and the fact he could talk to anyone and didn't hold himself above you.
Like when we lost Pete Taylor, I feel like I lost a dear friend last week.
Johnny meant so much to all of us back then and it will always be so. He was the Moses of Iowa State.
At times I've been frustrated with how hard some of our fans have been on past coaches because they didn't win fast enough or had player issues. It took Johnny years to get this program turned around and it certainly wasn't a linear line. He also never got more then 22 or 23 wins in a season. The great thing about Johnny however was that sense of humor and the fact he could talk to anyone and didn't hold himself above you.
Like when we lost Pete Taylor, I feel like I lost a dear friend last week.
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I loved Johnny Orr. I was home from school sick as a senior in high school the day Johnny was announced as the NEW IOWA STATE COACH. They came on the air at about 10 AM and interrupted programming to announce it. I can't think of a good analogy to explain to folks who were not Cyclone fans at the time what kind of a shock this was. But, I don't think it would be an exaggeration to compare it to what it would feel like if Nick Saban were to be named ISU football coach. Johnny was that big. Michigan basketball was that big. Iowa State was an absolute nobody in basketball.
No he didn't win at Michigan quite like Saban does at Alabama but you have to remember that college sports were not such a big deal back then. (Johnny's starting salary at ISU was $45,000, a 30% increase over his salary at Michigan.) But Johnny's moving to Iowa State was just that big, even before college sports were a big deal. Had there been an ESPN back then the story would have led the broadcast for a week.
I had two opportunities to meet Johnny personally. In veterinary school at Iowa State, we had him speak to our student group. What a stitch. No pretense, no ego. Just one of the people. Then 10 years later, during the great 2000 season, I attended a pre-game gala of some sort that was held in Scheman prior to our game against Kansas. Johnny was there and by some miracle of fate I found myself standing relatively alone at a buffet table with him. I said, "Coach, I still so appreciate your coming to Iowa State, and everything you've done". He responded with a patented Johnny chuckle and said "Well, coach, you know they paid me a lot more than Michigan!" I laughed and continued to talk to the great man for another 15 minutes or so. I shared with him that I had lived 2 rooms down from Ronnie Harris and Terrance Allen. He said, "Whoowhee, if we'd have had someone to go with Ronnie we'd have been something. Great player. I loved that kid." He went on to share with me that coming to Iowa State was "the best damn thing I've ever did. Coach, I was the lucky one" he said to me.
And that was Johnny Orr. Talking from his heart to a total stranger.
We'll never see him with that fist raised forehead high with that huge smile on his face jaunting around the Hilton Court again. But, I thank God for the many times I witnessed that, and I know that every time Kansas, or Oklahoma State, or Michigan or some other long time power leave Hilton with a loss, and the crowd is loud enough to make an opposing player point at his ear, with a "I can't hear" gesture, that Johnny was there, smiling and raising his fist with joy.
No he didn't win at Michigan quite like Saban does at Alabama but you have to remember that college sports were not such a big deal back then. (Johnny's starting salary at ISU was $45,000, a 30% increase over his salary at Michigan.) But Johnny's moving to Iowa State was just that big, even before college sports were a big deal. Had there been an ESPN back then the story would have led the broadcast for a week.
I had two opportunities to meet Johnny personally. In veterinary school at Iowa State, we had him speak to our student group. What a stitch. No pretense, no ego. Just one of the people. Then 10 years later, during the great 2000 season, I attended a pre-game gala of some sort that was held in Scheman prior to our game against Kansas. Johnny was there and by some miracle of fate I found myself standing relatively alone at a buffet table with him. I said, "Coach, I still so appreciate your coming to Iowa State, and everything you've done". He responded with a patented Johnny chuckle and said "Well, coach, you know they paid me a lot more than Michigan!" I laughed and continued to talk to the great man for another 15 minutes or so. I shared with him that I had lived 2 rooms down from Ronnie Harris and Terrance Allen. He said, "Whoowhee, if we'd have had someone to go with Ronnie we'd have been something. Great player. I loved that kid." He went on to share with me that coming to Iowa State was "the best damn thing I've ever did. Coach, I was the lucky one" he said to me.
And that was Johnny Orr. Talking from his heart to a total stranger.
We'll never see him with that fist raised forehead high with that huge smile on his face jaunting around the Hilton Court again. But, I thank God for the many times I witnessed that, and I know that every time Kansas, or Oklahoma State, or Michigan or some other long time power leave Hilton with a loss, and the crowd is loud enough to make an opposing player point at his ear, with a "I can't hear" gesture, that Johnny was there, smiling and raising his fist with joy.
Lou McCullough did an excellent job, for the most part, in his stint as ISU's AD ('71 -- '82). The best thing he did was hiring Johnny Orr, the second best was hiring Earle Bruce. IIRC, the DM Reg article reported Orr's salary jumped from about 15,000/yr. to 45,000/yr. Well done, Lou. RIP, Johnny, give Lou a pat on the back.
Very cool thread. Thanks to you more seasoned Cyclones for sharing your stories. I love reading them.
Went to the library tonight and read the January 1 Des Moines Register. You're right Chris that was a magnificent job they did covering Coach Orr. Probably one of the best pieces I've ever seen them put together. Lot of respect. Lot of respect.
