Offensive Woes

[MartyFine]

Some of you people think its a matter of calling plays only. Let me go through what graduated on offense last year. 1. Money Reynolds 2. KO and Hayworth Hicks What does that add up to? Physicality at their positions. How many times did we run behind KO and know he would beat his guy? How many times did we throw a jump ball or a ball that required Reynolds to outposition the db for the the ball? Check last years OSU game, with out KO Woody isnt blowing through the D-line, without Money we dont beat Iowa. Those 2 guys would make our qb's a little better. We cant estabish the run consistently, because our line isnt physical, if we could then life for are qb's would be easier, we cant complete passes consistently because of inaccuracy as well as lack of physical receivers. Another reason we cant establish the run is our recievers arent physical enough for downfield blocking. Alot of things would open up with better players. Our qb's are terrible but it doesnt help when we cant create consistent matchup problems with superior players anywhere on our offense. Coach Messingham inherited a slightly down offense, lets stay positive at least this year and the next, let the new guys come in and if its not working then so be it and lets show him the door.
With a few exceptions the team takes on the personality of their head coach because he is the guy closing the deals in the living room. Our team resembles our head coach, our defense is ahead of the offense. West Virginia/OSU/Baylor are the same way, but exactly opposite. Which would you rather have? Playing KSU tough with a shot to win it in the end or getting blasted 55-14 like West Virginia? Granted each is a loss but us Cyclone fans know what getting blasted feels like.

Agree that KO and Hicks were huge losses, but those guys have the type of size and strength we need in our O-lineman and I'm not sure we are recruiting that right now. ISU's O-line now would work in the MAC or MWC, but I don't think it is Big 12 quality. I wonder if recruiting plays a part in that? We'll probably never have an O-line coach as good as Loney was, but this is the worst performing position group right now, and that is saying something given how the QB's have played.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Rhoads said firmly that we need to run the football. Against Okie State our RB's had 11 carries for the entire game. Apparently Messingham isn't receiving the message. RUN THE DAMN BALL!!!

 

[Wesley]

Agree that KO and Hicks were huge losses, but those guys have the type of size and strength we need in our O-lineman and I'm not sure we are recruiting that right now. ISU's O-line now would work in the MAC or MWC, but I don't think it is Big 12 quality. I wonder if recruiting plays a part in that? We'll probably never have an O-line coach as good as Loney was, but this is the worst performing position group right now, and that is saying something given how the QB's have played.

Every team needs at least one road grader. We have pickup trucks.

 

[FootballinTexas]

Rhoads said firmly that we need to run the football. Against Okie State our RB's had 11 carries for the entire game. Apparently Messingham isn't receiving the message. RUN THE DAMN BALL!!!

My sentiments exactly! JB averaged 8 YPC with 6 carries. The 2-back read option was beautiful.....the 2 times we ran it! That's my beef with the play-calling. We're not sticking with the stuff that's working.

 

[Wesley]

Agree that KO and Hicks were huge losses, but those guys have the type of size and strength we need in our O-lineman and I'm not sure we are recruiting that right now. ISU's O-line now would work in the MAC or MWC, but I don't think it is Big 12 quality. I wonder if recruiting plays a part in that? We'll probably never have an O-line coach as good as Loney was, but this is the worst performing position group right now, and that is saying something given how the QB's have played.

We lead the nation in our qbs being chased.

 

[BringBackJohnny]

Mess has to step up and take control of this offense. Right now they are yelling at each other and running around looking like idiots. Look what Mess has done the last few games.

TT tries the run the ball with Jantz TT stops run attack ISU loss
TCU fairly 50/50 JB has some nice long balls and the defense gets a lot of take aways ISU win
KSU starts throwing the ball everywhere with JB lots of bounce passes and few completions ISU loss
OSU throws the ball all day lots of bouce passes few completions ISU loss

Why do we run the ball like crazy with the guy who is a better passer then throw the ball like crazy with the guy who is the better runner? It makes no sense!!!! Let the players skill dictate what plays you will run with Jantz throw the ball and let him get into space with JB let him run then play action. Jantz needs to be out there with Woody letting him do the stright dive type plays for 3 or 4 yrs and a cloud of dust JB needs JW SJ to have the potential to break one outside or cut back. We have the wrong personell to fit the scheme we run every week.

 

[heitclone]

I agree and hope we see more stack veer (diamond) formation where we run Barnett out of that and option out of it. The strongside stuff isn't working consistently at all. I also would like to see more Pistol, play action passing as well as read options from it as well as Z-motion looks using West and Horne. Really reaching here but our standard 'stuff' ain't working.

I'd love to see Horne and West involved more in the running game, they are 2 of our more dangerous players, we need to find more ways to get them the ball. At some point you have to look at our personel and adjust accordingly.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

My sentiments exactly! JB averaged 8 YPC with 6 carries. The 2-back read option was beautiful.....the 2 times we ran it! That's my beef with the play-calling. We're not sticking with the stuff that's working.

I haven't figured out why Mess loves to just abandon the run game. Even if it isn't working all that great you have to stick with it otherwise the defense has a huge advantage dropping 7 or 8 into coverage and exposing the fact that our QB's aren't accurate enough to throw the ball into that kind of traffic. A 1 deminsional offense is the easiest kind of offense to stop.... just ask West Virginia about that.

 

[VeloClone]

Mess has to step up and take control of this offense. Right now they are yelling at each other and running around looking like idiots. Look what Mess has done the last few games.

TT tries the run the ball with Jantz TT stops run attack ISU loss
TCU fairly 50/50 JB has some nice long balls and the defense gets a lot of take aways ISU win
KSU starts throwing the ball everywhere with JB lots of bounce passes and few completions ISU loss
OSU throws the ball all day lots of bouce passes few completions ISU loss

Why do we run the ball like crazy with the guy who is a better passer then throw the ball like crazy with the guy who is the better runner? It makes no sense!!!! Let the players skill dictate what plays you will run with Jantz throw the ball and let him get into space with JB let him run then play action. Jantz needs to be out there with Woody letting him do the stright dive type plays for 3 or 4 yrs and a cloud of dust JB needs JW SJ to have the potential to break one outside or cut back. We have the wrong personell to fit the scheme we run every week.

I agree that you can't abandon any one aspect of your game, but at the same time unless you are simply superior athletically and skillwise a team's offense has to take what the defense gives you. I hate Fry, but he said it well - "scratch where it itches". Snyder said it when they were interviewing him leaving the field after the game against ISU. They asked him about striving for a pass/rush balance. He said he doesn't determine the play balance they end up with, the opposing defense does. If our best passer ends up running more and our best runner ends up passing more that probably means that the D is doing their job and taking away your strength. It probably also means that your OC is doing his job and trying to take what the D is giving you.

 

[cygrads]

We have no Offensive Identity. Yes we are a spread offense but we do nothing well - we don't run the ball well and don't throw it well. We are limited by our QB and we seem to have RB's that are suppose to be good so why don't we attempt to really commit to the run with 2 back sets and run the ball. Use the WR's for sweeps, run a little option and leave the same RB's in the game so they can get into the flow. The coaching staff has to start coaching to our strengths instead of forcing the square peg into round hole.

 

[BringBackJohnny]

I agree that you can't abandon any one aspect of your game, but at the same time unless you are simply superior athletically and skillwise a team's offense has to take what the defense gives you. I hate Fry, but he said it well - "scratch where it itches". Snyder said it when they were interviewing him leaving the field after the game against ISU. They asked him about striving for a pass/rush balance. He said he doesn't determine the play balance they end up with, the opposing defense does. If our best passer ends up running more and our best runner ends up passing more that probably means that the D is doing their job and taking away your strength. It probably also means that your OC is doing his job and trying to take what the D is giving you.

You take what the defense gives you within your offensive scheme. Right now Mess is not putting the best personell out there for ISU's offensive scheme IMO. The offense will take what is given but it is also the only group on the field that knows exactly what is going to happen before the ball is snapped so they have an advantage. If Mess is always willing to take what is given the defense will gladly give him a 3 and out every time. You need your best personsell out there running the best play you have for that point in the game every time. Right now I don't think we have the best personell running the best play as often as is necessary to score points on a D-I opponent.

 

[isufan]

On a happier note, we have had fewer turnovers lately. Seriously, we need the offense look like they are going to beat Baylor right out of the chute min order to demoralize them.

This is a good thing.

However, it probably has something to do with the fact that we go three and out every series and don't have a chance to turn it over as much.

 

[aeroclone]

That is awful (in response to Aeroclone's post). Do those numbers include points scored by the defense?

Unfortunately, it does. I just posted the total points scored by the team, so those numbers would be boosted a little bit by any defensive or special teams scores we may have had.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Mess needs to take advantage of the defenses dropping 7 and 8 guys back into coverage as well with "DELAYED" QB draws. Mess called a QB draw against the Pokes and Barnett ran straight into the line. If anyone noticed when Barnett was dropping back to pass the Pokes were dropping all of these guys back into coverage and it was opening up huge running lanes for him to take off and run. He was able to get big gains several times because he went through his reads and then took off. The delay allowed these running lanes to develop. Amazing that our OC didn't recognize this.

 

[isufbcurt]

You take what the defense gives you within your offensive scheme. Right now Mess is not putting the best personell out there for ISU's offensive scheme IMO. The offense will take what is given but it is also the only group on the field that knows exactly what is going to happen before the ball is snapped so they have an advantage. If Mess is always willing to take what is given the defense will gladly give him a 3 and out every time. You need your best personsell out there running the best play you have for that point in the game every time. Right now I don't think we have the best personell running the best play as often as is necessary to score points on a D-I opponent.

Just an FYI, Mess isn't incharge of all the personnel. Each individual position coach decides who is going in when, for example Coach Pope decides what the RB rotation is.

 

[BringBackJohnny]

Just an FYI, Mess isn't incharge of all the personnel. Each individual position coach decides who is going in when, for example Coach Pope decides what the RB rotation is.

Thanks for the intel on that.

That even worries me more. Sounds like this offensive ship is running without a captain. Watch out for iceburgs

 

[isufbcurt]

Thanks for the intel on that.

That even worries me more. Sounds like this offensive ship is running without a captain. Watch out for iceburgs

Not necessarily, most staff's are like this. For example on defense, the positions coaches decide who is subbing in for who unless there is a specific package pre-determined.

 

[Torks Pub]

My sentiments exactly! JB averaged 8 YPC with 6 carries. The 2-back read option was beautiful.....the 2 times we ran it! That's my beef with the play-calling. We're not sticking with the stuff that's working.

Kinda like the beginning of the third quarter against TTech. We abandoned the formation and run after scoring a TD.

 

[Land Grant]

New Ideas

Would there be anything to gain by demoting Messingham and giving someone else operational control of the offense? Sturdy, for example? Could Rhoads take over the play calling himself (seems unlikely)?

It sure can't get any worse.

 

[ajk4st8]

Same QB as last year Check
Same RBs as last year Check
Same oline as last year ( minus 2 NFL guys) Check
Same WRs as last year (Minus our only playmaker from last year) Check

Not sure why things were expected to be drsatically different.