Paul Rhoads Recruiting Lesson

[Cychl82]

I think this is all funny. The guy is trying to be positive on what people see as a negative for CPR and being a critic to his recruiting. Then for him trying to shed some light on looking at the positive he now has critics for it......this is why i love CF :twitcy:

 

[CycloneVet]

This bolded statement is ridiculous. You are saying that there are high-level BCS players that no one knows about. Agreed. There are certainly SOME quality players out there that, for whatever reason, do not get many looks from BCS programs. What bothers me about your post, though, is you are insinuating that Rhoads is somehow working harder than other coaches to uncover these gems, or that he is somehow smarter/better at evaluating talent than other coaches. But again, there is NO EVIDENCE thus far to suggest that this is the case.

Are you telling me that with this year's recruiting class you have gained commitments from 10 BCS quality players that no one except Rhoads knew about? That you trust his judgment because he works harder than other coaches to identify these players and can see the potential in these kids that not a single other coach has seen?

Another thing I noticed is the extensive list of players you listed who are supposed to prove this theory of yours, yet in reality have proven absolutely nothing. Sure, there are some lightly recruited players that have played early. But the majority of Iowa State's roster is filled with players who didn't have many BCS offers. Somebody has got to play, and odds are it is going to be someone without other offers.

You cannot expect to build a competitive roster by relying on a perceived ability to uncover "hidden gems" that other programs overlooked. Because the recruiting stars DO matter. A four star player is 333% more likely to be drafted when compared to a two star recruit, and over 200% more likely when compared to a three star recruit.

If Paul Rhoads thinks he can build a roster that will eventually be able to consistently compete with the big boys in the Big XII by acquiring talent that he feels has been overlooked, he isn't going to be around for long.

And for you to assume every player he recruits is capable of becoming a standout player is just as asinine.

And here we go, I thought you were banned. I am now advocating you should be. Head over to Hawkeye Nation so you can jerk off with those guys. We dont want you here.

 

[Cyclone271]

This bolded statement is ridiculous. You are saying that there are high-level BCS players that no one knows about. Agreed. There are certainly SOME quality players out there that, for whatever reason, do not get many looks from BCS programs. What bothers me about your post, though, is you are insinuating that Rhoads is somehow working harder than other coaches to uncover these gems, or that he is somehow smarter/better at evaluating talent than other coaches. But again, there is NO EVIDENCE thus far to suggest that this is the case.

Are you telling me that with this year's recruiting class you have gained commitments from 10 BCS quality players that no one except Rhoads knew about? That you trust his judgment because he works harder than other coaches to identify these players and can see the potential in these kids that not a single other coach has seen?

Another thing I noticed is the extensive list of players you listed who are supposed to prove this theory of yours, yet in reality have proven absolutely nothing. Sure, there are some lightly recruited players that have played early. But the majority of Iowa State's roster is filled with players who didn't have many BCS offers. Somebody has got to play, and odds are it is going to be someone without other offers.

You cannot expect to build a competitive roster by relying on a perceived ability to uncover "hidden gems" that other programs overlooked. Because the recruiting stars DO matter. A four star player is 333% more likely to be drafted when compared to a two star recruit, and over 200% more likely when compared to a three star recruit.

If Paul Rhoads thinks he can build a roster that will eventually be able to consistently compete with the big boys in the Big XII by acquiring talent that he feels has been overlooked, he isn't going to be around for long.

And for you to assume every player he recruits is capable of becoming a standout player is just as asinine.

First thing, where are you getting your statistics on the stars? Second thing, usually higher profile schools get the four and five star recruits, and they are more likely to be drafted as opposed to the two and three star recruits who while, might be as good, if not better than players who are drafted in late rounds from other, higher profile schools.
The example of this would be this year, with Iowa State and Iowa. Even though Leonard Johnson had shut down several of the best receivers in the country, he still was left undrafted, while several Iowa DB's were taken.

Also, just because other schools have been overlooking our recruits, that doesn't mean that those players won't end up being All Big 12 players. Paul Rhoads is doing a tremendous job of finding guys who he knows he and the rest of the coaching staff can develop, and sees potential in them.

And it is true that every single player that Rhoads recruits COULD be a standout player, that doesn't mean that each WILL be, but every single player could be, because our coaching staff has the amazing skills to develop any player.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Why because that doesn't suit your agenda?

He is a picture perfect illustration, and that is why you need to ignore it. A local kid with exceptional athleticism that was scouted by two highly successful local coaches that both completely failed in their evaluation. He is a perfect example of the fallacy that the opinions of other coaches is the key criteria that validates a recruits worthiness.

Agenda? I have an agenda? No. Don't use him because he is from a small town in Iowa and was looked at by only two staffs. Don't use him because he doesn't happen often at all and it's ridiculous to think we are getting 10 guys like him every year. Sorry, but 2 star to All American happens very little. He is an exception.

 

[Cyhart]

I guess what concerns me is that fans really think that 3 years under Rhoads and 2 low tier bowl games and still a losing record over all under him, equates to immediate success on the Recruiting trail. With what ISU has done lately, even though in our minds we are greatly improved, it's tough to realisticly think we can directly compete with anyone on the recruiting trail in our conference yet. Maybe we could duke it out with Kansas, but honestly, every other school has a distinct advantage, weather that be being in Texas, tradition, recent success or a boatload of money.

By ISU standards, we are leaps and bounds above where we were a few years ago. On a national standpoint, we are a team who is 18-19 over the last 3 years, with a history of being a bad football program. That reputation doesn't get turned over over night. It's a tough road, I understand the frustration with not getting guys we 'd like. I jsut don't get why people think we passing on more highly rated guys if we really thought we had a shot at them. Maybe it's as simple as the coaches made a call and the kid said, "I am not interested in ISU." Its' not an easy sell.

Absolutely this.
The biggest problem with people like Mattyice's posts is they act like Reuben Foster wanted to come to ISU and we turned him away. Give me a break. The staff is doing the best they can. What else can we ask for?

 

[CykoAGR]

I guess what concerns me is that fans really think that 3 years under Rhoads and 2 low tier bowl games and still a losing record over all under him, equates to immediate success on the Recruiting trail. With what ISU has done lately, even though in our minds we are greatly improved, it's tough to realisticly think we can directly compete with anyone on the recruiting trail in our conference yet. Maybe we could duke it out with Kansas, but honestly, every other school has a distinct advantage, weather that be being in Texas, tradition, recent success or a boatload of money.

By ISU standards, we are leaps and bounds above where we were a few years ago. On a national standpoint, we are a team who is 18-19 over the last 3 years, with a history of being a bad football program. That reputation doesn't get turned over over night. It's a tough road, I understand the frustration with not getting guys we 'd like. I jsut don't get why people think we passing on more highly rated guys if we really thought we had a shot at them. Maybe it's as simple as the coaches made a call and the kid said, "I am not interested in ISU." Its' not an easy sell.

Finally some logic . . . .

 

[St8Fan]

You don't make a very good case when you list a bunch of guys haven't done anything yet a

Then you didn't read closely enough...he listed proven recruits and several unproven recruits who have demonstrated their talent by how they're rising up the depth charts and playing as true freshmen.

 

[Cydkar]

I remember now why I don't follow football recruiting AT ALL. It will play out and I'm patient enough to let it.

 

[dualthreat]

And every draft pick in the NFL sees the field and every undrafted free agent is nothing other than a practice team player or cut the first week. I guess even the NFL teams are doing it all wrong also...

And the teams who draft busts usually have ****** teams.

 

[cydline2cydline]

Agenda? I have an agenda? No. Don't use him because he is from a small town in Iowa and was looked at by only two staffs. Don't use him because he doesn't happen often at all and it's ridiculous to think we are getting 10 guys like him every year. Sorry, but 2 star to All American happens very little. He is an exception.

You are expecting to get 10-All Americans every year?!? You may want to temper those expectations. Not all the 2 stars will become great players but you might get 1 or 2 every year (IMO Farniok also falls into this type of category). Those types of players are going to have to supplement for the 4 or 5 star guys we aren't getting today.

How many 4 or 5 star guys would you be happy with us getting?

Also to say they are the execption to the rule, that would be false as well because Rhoads is averaging at least 1 of these types of players per year(albeit a small sample set).

 

[j_crow]

I don't really follow recruiting very closely, but some comments earlier in the thread sparked some curiosity about how our current number of commits compares to previous years under CPR. I know the issues a lot of people have with our current class relates to quality (stars, offers, etc.), but I have no expertise in evaluating talent and I choose not to put a whole lot of stock into recruiting service rankings. In any case, I thought it'd be interesting to look at the number of commits over time for each of the past five classes, and thought I'd share.

A few notes:
- This is based off the Rivals commit database.
- The current (2013) class could potentially be skewed higher, as there's always the possibility that current commits could switch schools, while the other classes are only including those that stayed committed to ISU.
- There are a few commits in previous classes we got after March, but this graph doesn't include them.

 

[mt85]

Agenda? I have an agenda? No. Don't use him because he is from a small town in Iowa and was looked at by only two staffs. Don't use him because he doesn't happen often at all and it's ridiculous to think we are getting 10 guys like him every year. Sorry, but 2 star to All American happens very little. He is an exception.

4A schools from the Des Moines metro area are not small town Iowa. The 4A schools in Iowa are scouted by plenty of teams outside of Iowa. Just look at how many schools find a guy like Jake Campos.

Jake Knott was on the elite all-state team and was Class 4A first-team all-state by The Des Moines Register. This wasn't a kid that was under the radar. This was a kid that was right out there for everyone to see, yet virtually everyone missed on him. He is a perfect example that just because a guy doesn't have a bunch of Division I offers doesn't mean he isn't as talented as someone that does.

The pool of players is so large and each staffs ability to scout is limited by time and the size of their staffs. There are always going to be a large number of players that will fall through the cracks that have the ability to compete at the high major level. You have to trust that the staff you hire has the skills to understand and identify players that have the talent to compete at the high major level. If they do they will be successful over time. If they don't they won't last long. That is the bottom line. The only way we will know for sure is to wait and see how it plays out.

The fact that our staff was the only high major program that recognized that Jake Knott had the talent to compete is an encouraging sign. The fact that so many of our own fans somehow want to discount that is beyond me to understand their agenda.