Please Stop with "should've run on 2nd"

[ISUguy]

Again, I can't help but disagree. If the clones run it two straight plays and don't pick up the first, or run it on second and throw on third and it's incomplete, KSU had same amount of time with 1 or no timeouts. The defensive scheme wasn't great regardless, but if KSU does the same thing and scores, then everyone is wondering why we didn't take a shot against the 128th worst pass D in the nation to end the game. So many other teams in same situation are throwing it to end the game, what is wrong with ISU doing it?
This is all moot anyways because we all know it should've been pass INT and a first down for ISU.

Think about the outcome though...they had to burn two timeouts in order to set up that last play as they used both of them and scored with no time on the clock. If they did not have those timeouts, they lose. We win. They would have had a different strategy of course but the fact remains that we screwed up strategy-wise. You never stop the clock for them....in this case, coaching 101. We tried to get too smart and it bit us.

 

[Smallz0r]

I mean, I get what you’re trying to say but when you compare our offense with Kempt at QB with Cam Newton and Aaron Rodgers the argument is invalid, IMO. If you think our offense should be called the same as theirs I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Turn2]

So people are arguing that we should have done the same thing we did in 2015 that led to the game-losing turnover by a young running back? Okaaaay.

 

[allfourcy]

While I was hoping for a run on 2nd down, too, I also think you have to be fair and praise the 3rd and 18 play the previous set of downs. Considering it was 3rd and 18, you see a lot of teams run there or throw a safe screen pass, not risking a turnover with the lead, and let your defense win the game considering they had only given up 14 points for 3 1/2 quarters. But....gutsy call and great pass for 20 yards for a first down and we were set for another three downs. Just saying...there's always plays you can critique both good and bad in a tight football game. Just a shame we didn't have a healthy Montgomery...but did have a very cowardice officiating crew.

 

[Beyerball]

Think about the outcome though...they had to burn two timeouts in order to set up that last play as they used both of them and scored with no time on the clock. If they did not have those timeouts, they lose. We win. They would have had a different strategy of course but the fact remains that we screwed up strategy-wise. You never stop the clock for them....in this case, coaching 101. We tried to get too smart and it bit us.

Disagree to a certain extent..You dont’ play the game hoping to do something that affects the other team...You play the game to execute your strategy...Sometimes that strategy is running ball to keep clock running or get first down other times it is pass the ball once more to get 1st down to end the game basically. ISU executes on that 2nd down and the game is over.

We had like 2nd and 8? Or somehting close to that and KSU was stacking the box with no Montgomery in the game.

2 obvious flags were picked up on our last offensive series that would have probably ended the game..the PI woudl have ended it. KSU had to go like 85 yards in under 2 min...For a mostly running team whether they have 13 timenouts left or 2 left it was an incredibly improbably drive with how our defense had played in the game.


The talking point isnt passing the ball one time in that game with over 2 min to play on a long 2nd down...The talking point is whether officials had an agenda in that game or it was complete and utter incompetence likeI’ve not seen in 35 years of watching ISU fball.

 

[BCClone]

I think that's NFL rules maybe?

Clock stops after incomplete pass/out of bounds at all times in college.

That's what I thought, but in a home game was yelling about the clock not stopping on an out of bounds and a guy in front of me said a new rule was no stoppage until the 2 or 5 minute mark.

 

[clonedlion]

I mean, I get what you’re trying to say but when you compare our offense with Kempt at QB with Cam Newton and Aaron Rodgers the argument is invalid, IMO. If you think our offense should be called the same as theirs I don’t know what to tell you.

I just used those two as examples because they popped into my head. There are other examples out there from college teams as well. What everyone is suggesting is that we don't trust our offense to pick up a first down and end the game, run or pass.

 

[clonedlion]

Think about the outcome though...they had to burn two timeouts in order to set up that last play as they used both of them and scored with no time on the clock. If they did not have those timeouts, they lose. We win. They would have had a different strategy of course but the fact remains that we screwed up strategy-wise. You never stop the clock for them....in this case, coaching 101. We tried to get too smart and it bit us.

This is hindsight my good man. IF KSU doesn't have those timeouts, then the playing changes. Maybe they run 4 verticals and get a tipped pass for the touchdown from 40 yards out. The possibilities are endless of what could've happened. That is what makes sports great, no do-overs. You can't derive that it would have been an auto win for clones without those timeouts.

 

[clonedlion]

While I was hoping for a run on 2nd down, too, I also think you have to be fair and praise the 3rd and 18 play the previous set of downs. Considering it was 3rd and 18, you see a lot of teams run there or throw a safe screen pass, not risking a turnover with the lead, and let your defense win the game considering they had only given up 14 points for 3 1/2 quarters. But....gutsy call and great pass for 20 yards for a first down and we were set for another three downs. Just saying...there's always plays you can critique both good and bad in a tight football game. Just a shame we didn't have a healthy Montgomery...but did have a very cowardice officiating crew.

Very well said and good point. Would've been easy to criticize that play if incomplete. Can't get away from the fact that ISU was in a position to win on that 3rd down and refs took it away.
Of course, we can say none of this should've happened as you can't pick that flag on that late hit against kempt. I think we are all on the same page and frustrated with how this ended and coming at it with different thoiughts.

 

[Yellow Snow]

What you guy criticizing the pass calls on those downs are forgetting...

Passing the ball freaking WORKED!!!! We got the PI, we had the first down/game won. It worked! Just because the official picked up the flag doesn't negate the fact that the play calling was fine.

Some of you guys ******** about passing in that situation would be ******** about NOT passing if we ran it twice, got stuffed, and punted. I can hear it now... "playing with no balls, chicken **** coaching, conceding the game, needed ONE first down to win, etc."

That's a fact and you guys know it.

/rant

 

[cyups2323]

I absolutely love this coaching staff and i wouldn't trade them for any staff in America. That being said, throwing the ball twice in that situation was a huge mistake. Like many have said the run game had been working and it was very likely we would have picked up 6 yards with 2 more runs. What cannot happen in that situation is allowing kst8 to not use their timeouts. We got what we deserved in that game unfortunately.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

Campbell didn't look very happy about it when it happened. I wasn't happy about it. Now if Butler had caught the ball, be another story. Then again, if Refs honored their calls...

 

[clonedude]

Can we all just agree that CMC was pi$$ed at the 2nd down call and was also wondering what in the world we were doing? He was screaming into his headset.

But looking back on it, I don't really blame them for trying to win the game. People act like if we just ran it on 2nd and 3rd we would have won the game, but that's not true. KSU would have had basically the same amount of time on the clock, just no TO's. They could still have easily won the game.

And if that had happened, then today everyone would say they are sick and tired of teams always playing so conservatively and playing not to lose instead of playing to win. And besides, on 3rd down they called the winning play, but had it taken away by the officials.

 

[clonedlion]

I absolutely love this coaching staff and i wouldn't trade them for any staff in America. That being said, throwing the ball twice in that situation was a huge mistake. Like many have said the run game had been working and it was very likely we would have picked up 6 yards with 2 more runs. What cannot happen in that situation is allowing kst8 to not use their timeouts. We got what we deserved in that game unfortunately.

This sentiment is proving my point. You saidm LIKELY pick up 6 yards. That doesn't mean they would have. Then people would complain about not trying to stick the dagger in by picking p the first against the 128th WORST PASS D. They took advantage of KSU weakness and the refs took that advantage away.

 

[Don4ISU]

You guys continue to miss the point. If I was the coach I would have run the ball but it wasn’t an atrocious play call.

It wasn’t a terrible call, but the game was essentially down to getting 6 yards in two plays. Personally I would’ve ran Croney then put Lanning. Worst case is kstate burns it’s timeouts. Which were critical on their drive.

 

[Yellow Snow]

It wasn’t a terrible call, but the game was essentially down to getting 6 yards in two plays. Personally I would’ve ran Croney then put Lanning. Worst case is kstate burns it’s timeouts. Which were critical on their drive.

Yea... but hind sight is 20/20. The plays that were called actually worked. We know that. It actually happened. PI on third down pass won the game. That isn't hypothetical. The fact that the ref for no known reason picked up the flag doesn't change the fact that the play call won the game.

I don't get the argument. What you are saying, is that we would have won the game even if we knelt on the ball twice and punted. Think about it. WE WON THE GAME WITH THE PLAYS CALLED. No way Manning is at fault for this situation.

 

[jkclone]

It wasn’t a terrible call, but the game was essentially down to getting 6 yards in two plays. Personally I would’ve ran Croney then put Lanning. Worst case is kstate burns it’s timeouts. Which were critical on their drive.

I agree and that is what I would have done but that doesn’t mean the actual calls weren’t reasonable. The small segment who always have to defend the officials because they can never impact a game are using this as their excuse and that is the issue.

 

[NoCreativity]

Yea... but hind sight is 20/20. The plays that were called actually worked. We know that. It actually happened. PI on third down pass won the game. That isn't hypothetical. The fact that the ref for no known reason picked up the flag doesn't change the fact that the play call won the game.

I don't get the argument. What you are saying, is that we would have won the game even if we knelt on the ball twice and punted. Think about it. WE WON THE GAME WITH THE PLAYS CALLED. No way Manning is at fault for this situation.

They didn't work, you don' call a play hoping for a pass interference call to win the game. If you are going to call 2 passing plays call a high percentage throw or a rollout where Kempt can run if he needs to.

Kempt doesn't have the arm to be throwing that 3rd down pass to Lazard and just hope for the best. Manning screwed this game by his play calling on that last drive, incompetent refs or not.

 

[Yellow Snow]

They didn't work, you don' call a play hoping for a pass interference call to win the game. If you are going to call 2 passing plays call a high percentage throw or a rollout where Kempt can run if he needs to.

Kempt doesn't have the arm to be throwing that 3rd down pass to Lazard and just hope for the best. Manning screwed this game by his play calling on that last drive, incompetent refs or not.

I doubt that was the plan. Most likely the plan was to complete the pass.

Anyway - I don't get what you are saying. We had the first down. We got what we needed to win the game. Incompetent refs changed that, not Manning. Please explain? We won the game his way... refs changed it. How is that Manning's fault?

 

[cyups2323]

Noone said anything about taking a knee or that we were guarenteed to win the game if we ran. Im simply saying there is no way you allow kst8 to get the ball back without using all their timeouts. If we had picked up the first down on the 2nd down pass the game still wasnt over because kst8 had 2 timeouts left. I think we are gonna have to all just agree to disagree on this. I love ballsy play calls but this is one time i disagreed with it.

If it was me, when it was 2nd and 6 and kst8 used their 1st timeout i would have put in the lanram package and told my warrior senior to go get me 6 yds in 2 plays and lets go 8-4.