Principal Financial-Remote work

Bigman38

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It's a cost cutting measure, pure and simple. They just thought they could give it enough paint to get people to swallow the turd.

Was just typing this. We went "open concept" too, which really just ended up in them being able to shove a lot more people in an area with almost zero personal space. Our dividers are 12 inches tall and it's pods of 4 desks all facing each other. If anyone is on a call, everyone is on a call.

And even in an office with multiple directors you'll never guess who is the only person to have a private office far away from the rest of the minions.
 

somecyguy

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Was just typing this. We went "open concept" too, which really just ended up in them being able to shove a lot more people in an area with almost zero personal space. Our dividers are 12 inches tall and it's pods of 4 desks all facing each other.
Years ago I took a contract for some technical work and walked into this situation. Day 2 I told the director, I'm done. My stomach was knotted up and stress was sky high. That's just too much to handle while I'm trying to concentrate, even with headphones.
 
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Bigman38

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Years ago I took a contract for some technical work and walked into this situation. Day 2 I told the director, I'm done. My stomach was knotted up and stress was sky high. That's just too much to handle while I'm trying to concentrate, even with headphones.

We've had that exact same scenario happen 3-4 times since the switch. Company wide email "welcome John Doe to the company", and they've quit by EOD. 2 of them didn't make it past lunch, left their laptop on their desk and told their manager they got a remote offer they're going to accept. Which I always took as they had multiple offers, ours paid more so they took it, saw the office and realized the pay cut was well worth it.
 
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KnappShack

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The people who invented Open Concept offices should be killed by paper cuts. Everything in my peripheral vision distracts me. It just does. So working with movement around me is an absolute show stopper.

Common sense should have told them that constant noise and no room to concentrate would not go over well with most people. Leave the open concept designs to marketing companies where it belongs.

Constant motion and some folks taking calls that need to be in an office.

I used the space to have a team meeting and we were having a laugh. CEO walks by and flips us **** about not working hard.

Lose-lose-lose in those environments
 

CascadeClone

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It's a cost cutting measure, pure and simple. They just thought they could give it enough paint to get people to swallow the turd.

Well, its not ALL cost driven. Theoretically it can help communication and foster creativity.

But i agree its terrible and shouldnt ever be done unless employees ASK for it because they think it will help them. There are a lot of bad management practices but open plan offices may be the worst.
 

BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
If those studies showing WFH lowers worker productivity are accurate, how can the record revenues and profits corporations across sectors have reported the past couple of years be explained?

On one hand, "worker productivity" is kind of a hard thing to define and measure across various industries while accounting for differences in corporate culture and investments in technology that might make workers more productive wherever they're working from. On the other hand, revenues and profits are a pretty objective metric to measure overall success of a company.

I just have a hard time understanding how companies are overcoming decreased productivity while also showing drastically increased profits. It seems either one could be true, but claiming both seems like a challenge to explain.

IMO, companies that are seeing decreased productivity should focus on finding out how they can mirror the companies and are having success with WFH. Of course, micromanaging employees is an easier "solution" than overhauling corporate culture. IMO, it's going to make less happy employees, who are then less productive, more likely to leave, which increases turnover and hurts productivity. So of course struggling corporations are going to choose the option that exacerbates the problem they're trying to solve.
Haven’t looked at any detailed numbers but know inflation is through the roof so if they are just looking at nominal profits that’s a pretty easy part right there.
 

cowgirl836

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Well, its not ALL cost driven. Theoretically it can help communication and foster creativity.

But i agree its terrible and shouldnt ever be done unless employees ASK for it because they think it will help them. There are a lot of bad management practices but open plan offices may be the worst.


It's been a minute since I've read on it but I thought the jist of it was having open collaboration spaces where employees could *chose* to go to and engage with others, not lining everyone up like a factory line with zero personal space to grab a tampon without everyone seeing.
 

somecyguy

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It's been a minute since I've read on it but I thought the jist of it was having open collaboration spaces where employees could *chose* to go to and engage with others, not lining everyone up like a factory line with zero personal space to grab a tampon without everyone seeing.
The epitome of open floor plan coupled with a toxic personality.

 

mywayorcyway

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The company I work for I'm pretty sure just loses a whole bunch of tax breaks for the commercial space they lease.
This is a big problem. A have a few friends who work for farmers insurance. Farmers put up some buildings in Phoenix with long-term tax abatements. The city wants their money if there aren't people there.
 
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BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
This is a big problem. A have a few friends who work for farmers insurance. Farmers put up some buildings in Phoenix with long-term tax abatements. The city wants their money if there aren't people there.
And not pro-rated. All of it back usually.
 

shadow

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Lots of interesting things in here. One thing that I don't think I saw was the generational gap. Baby boomers seem to love the office while younger folks don't. I was on a RTO task force which was mostly millennials and we spent hours coming up with recommendations on how to roll things out (e.g. give folks at least 4-6 months notice on changes due to things like childcare). When it got to our leadership team, mostly baby boomers, they basically ignore everything we recommended. Just dumb to have a task force if you're just going to ignore it all.
 

FarminCy

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Was just typing this. We went "open concept" too, which really just ended up in them being able to shove a lot more people in an area with almost zero personal space. Our dividers are 12 inches tall and it's pods of 4 desks all facing each other. If anyone is on a call, everyone is on a call.

And even in an office with multiple directors you'll never guess who is the only person to have a private office far away from the rest of the
Perfect description of issues of open concept, a lot of distractions. In our current process we are pushing for more meeting/collab rooms, personal meeting rooms (phone booths), and segmentation so that teams can schedule desks and work together yet have separation from rest of office. Most locations will also have a number of private offices that can be scheduled too. It’s not a perfect setup but we did get large feedback that open concept everywhere would not work if people are still just sitting at desks on calls with remote people.

Most messaging is only come in on days it makes sense to be together in person for certain meetings, projects, etc. Not just come in and work.
 

madguy30

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Office good. Remote bad.

I'm surprised to see so many look at in person as a creative time. Meetings and stuff are so time-wasting and draining for me that it kills my creativity. I do that stuff best where I can be off thinking, and then maybe talk with someone about results.

Meetings for the most part are for stroking egos and/or people that want to hear themselves talk/control the room.
 

madguy30

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Lots of interesting things in here. One thing that I don't think I saw was the generational gap. Baby boomers seem to love the office while younger folks don't. I was on a RTO task force which was mostly millennials and we spent hours coming up with recommendations on how to roll things out (e.g. give folks at least 4-6 months notice on changes due to things like childcare). When it got to our leadership team, mostly baby boomers, they basically ignore everything we recommended. Just dumb to have a task force if you're just going to ignore it all.

I bet they liked the task force though.
 
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CascadeClone

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It's been a minute since I've read on it but I thought the jist of it was having open collaboration spaces where employees could *chose* to go to and engage with others, not lining everyone up like a factory line with zero personal space to grab a tampon without everyone seeing.
Yeah that was how it started... and probably would work decently but it got distorted.

For most office environments, its almost like a home. You need different types of space for different purposes: offices for quiet work and personnel reviews and such confidential things, conference rooms for meetings and group presentations, and informal areas where people can congregate and communicate - both business and personal.

But that's expensive to have all that, and have it not always used. And so some companies don't see the value and bulldoze it. Lots of companies do lots of dumb things, because they are led and managed by dumb people...
 
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cycloneML

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Typically the guy pounding the table on these items is some jerk who works from home in Jersey or Florida
true story. i work with a guy who's boss was telling him the team needed to get back in the office and work harder while my buddy could hear the Florida pool splash in the background.