Great post. Anyone who doesn't think the #1 factor in the pheasant population decrease is habitat loss is delusional. All the rest factor in, but they are all secondary.
Question for the pheasant hunters
- Thread starter Arkansas Cyclone
- Start date
Great post. Anyone who doesn't think the #1 factor in the pheasant population decrease is habitat loss is delusional. All the rest factor in, but they are all secondary.
Thank you, and you are correct. Lots of factors, but habitat is #1 by a long shot. And that is not changing any time soon, unfortunately.
well if you hunters want more hunting ground, go out and buy it...farmers will do what the market demands, if pheasants were worth more than corn, we would be up to our airpits in the ******* things...so if you want ground to hunt, go out and buy a few acres, seed it to cover, and have a god damn blast!
I wrote earlier that I had seen 1 pheasant so far this year in our harvest in the Creston, Ia. area. And that the DNR line that hard Winter's and wet Summers were the reason for population decline did not make sense since the Dakota's have equal or worse of both. I do not claim to have any distinct single explanation for what has happened to the pheasants in most of Iowa. It does interest me that from what I read from other sources and on this board that NW Ia. has better numbers. NW Ia. is not a high CRP area but does have lots of livestock (cattle) equating to hay fields. I hunt some deer but am not an avid hunter. We have a large diversified farming operation and I spend all day outside in the field over a sixty mile area. Most of the time I am in a tractor cab traveling 5 mile an hour doing some mind numbing mundane task. This allows for the opportunity to make some observations about my environmental habitat and what is going on. Here are my observations from the field for my sixty mile area over the past 60 years:
1) Habitat has not changed as much as one thinks since the 50's. What was once rotated between corn/soybeans/hay/oats and pasture, is now corn/soybeans/pasture and CRP.
2) Our area of SW Ia. maxed out on allowable acres of CRP per county around 1985. Which in our case is 40,000 acres I believe. That figure has remainded constant since then. Those acres were row-cropped prior to that or were not otherwise elgible. Hence the logic in 1).
3) Pheasants (and quail) like weed seed. Many tree lined fence rows that were weedy bird havens have disappeared over my lifetime. When I started farming in the 70's we were limited on good chemical weed control and had lots of foxtail in our corn and bean fields. Harvest could not start until a "killing" frost occured so the lower horsepower combines of the day could operate in those weedy fields of the day. The advent of good chemical control which was mainly RoundUp in the late 80"s, eliminated weeds from all fields. I think the loss of weed seed and weedy fence rows are a big contributing factor to pheasant habitat loss.
3) CRP has been a big disaster for pheasants. Pheasants do not benefit from grass (brome) which is what all CRP is seeded from. No seeds to eat and not good cover. Interestingly, just recently the NRCS (USDA govt. agency that regulates farm programs for you urban readers) has urged CRP contract holders to spray their brome with RoundUp and let it naturally grow back to whatever weeds emerge. This is a welcome change of rules for the benefit of birds and I doubt that any of you city hunters have heard about that coming from the DNR.
4) Snow cover does not do as much harm to pheasants or their ability to find feed as is led to believe, they are very hardy. Ice does, big time, though as it does any animal.
5) Predators have always been the number one detrement to pheasants, not hunters or weather. Red-tailed hawks are the worst. I have seen hawks carry off mature pheasants in full flight many times. Raccoons and skunks (and housecats) are hard on eggs. Coyotes get alot. Their are more predators in my area today than anytime in my lifetime due to CRP habitat which is ideal for them and the demise of the fur trade (no trapping).
The pheasant population decline started ten years ago not these past two years. And I agree the past two winters and summers have not been beneficial to what few were left. This has been going on a long time and I suspect that in our area that the CRP was a big contributor and the disappearance at the same time of weedy field rows and field edges. In our area, the pheasant has literally become extinct and in my view drastic action needs to happen. Farmers like me enjoy watching wildlife and I go out of my way, on my own at my own expense, to leave areas of weedy spots and unpicked corn areas for habitat. We always end up with several unused bags of seed corn worth hundreds of dollars apiece which I give to the local Pheasant Forevers people at no charge for their use. And I generally let people who are courteous and ask permission to hunt on me for free. I also grow 3500 acres of corn that is all sold to a local ehthanol plant. AND ethanol has absolutely nothing to do with pheasants. You on here who have advocated that must be imposters from Iowa City (liberal tree huggers) and surely not ISU graduates (ag school).
1) Habitat has not changed as much as one thinks since the 50's. What was once rotated between corn/soybeans/hay/oats and pasture, is now corn/soybeans/pasture and CRP.
2) Our area of SW Ia. maxed out on allowable acres of CRP per county around 1985. Which in our case is 40,000 acres I believe. That figure has remainded constant since then. Those acres were row-cropped prior to that or were not otherwise elgible. Hence the logic in 1).
3) Pheasants (and quail) like weed seed. Many tree lined fence rows that were weedy bird havens have disappeared over my lifetime. When I started farming in the 70's we were limited on good chemical weed control and had lots of foxtail in our corn and bean fields. Harvest could not start until a "killing" frost occured so the lower horsepower combines of the day could operate in those weedy fields of the day. The advent of good chemical control which was mainly RoundUp in the late 80"s, eliminated weeds from all fields. I think the loss of weed seed and weedy fence rows are a big contributing factor to pheasant habitat loss.
3) CRP has been a big disaster for pheasants. Pheasants do not benefit from grass (brome) which is what all CRP is seeded from. No seeds to eat and not good cover. Interestingly, just recently the NRCS (USDA govt. agency that regulates farm programs for you urban readers) has urged CRP contract holders to spray their brome with RoundUp and let it naturally grow back to whatever weeds emerge. This is a welcome change of rules for the benefit of birds and I doubt that any of you city hunters have heard about that coming from the DNR.
4) Snow cover does not do as much harm to pheasants or their ability to find feed as is led to believe, they are very hardy. Ice does, big time, though as it does any animal.
5) Predators have always been the number one detrement to pheasants, not hunters or weather. Red-tailed hawks are the worst. I have seen hawks carry off mature pheasants in full flight many times. Raccoons and skunks (and housecats) are hard on eggs. Coyotes get alot. Their are more predators in my area today than anytime in my lifetime due to CRP habitat which is ideal for them and the demise of the fur trade (no trapping).
The pheasant population decline started ten years ago not these past two years. And I agree the past two winters and summers have not been beneficial to what few were left. This has been going on a long time and I suspect that in our area that the CRP was a big contributor and the disappearance at the same time of weedy field rows and field edges. In our area, the pheasant has literally become extinct and in my view drastic action needs to happen. Farmers like me enjoy watching wildlife and I go out of my way, on my own at my own expense, to leave areas of weedy spots and unpicked corn areas for habitat. We always end up with several unused bags of seed corn worth hundreds of dollars apiece which I give to the local Pheasant Forevers people at no charge for their use. And I generally let people who are courteous and ask permission to hunt on me for free. I also grow 3500 acres of corn that is all sold to a local ehthanol plant. AND ethanol has absolutely nothing to do with pheasants. You on here who have advocated that must be imposters from Iowa City (liberal tree huggers) and surely not ISU graduates (ag school).
not sure if I follow what your point is here. are you saying that farmers should not plant as much corn because corn ruins pheasant breeding ground? if so, look at the statistics, corn acres in iowa have been within 3% of 13 million for well over a generation. it is not like corn acres in iowa have dramatically increased in the past few years.
isn't just as likely that too many birds have been harvested in recent years, leading to a reduction total counts?
The farmers that I know said they have seen very few pheasants. I live in the Fort Dodge area. I am still going to go a few times and hit a shooting preserve several times for my young German Longhaired Pointer's sake. She needs to get into some birds. The best one that I have hunted on is Pheasant Haven, near Kanawa. They have a website. They release more birds on their ground than you buy and the action is always great. I might go with some guys in SD in mid November. My family owns some ground near Winterset and the bird hunting there has been really bad in the last few years. If you live out of state, I would not make the trip back.
Wow, where to start.
How about this. In 1995, the harvest for pheasants was about 1.5MM. that also coincides with the high point of ten year/CRP in Iowa as it was initially planted around 1985. coincidence? I say not. if CRP was such a disaster for pheasants, how would you explain that fact?
You say that you don't know why NW iowa has high numbers of birds yet today. No coincidence that they have the highest level of pheasant cover in the state. 100s and 100s of acres of CRP-type cover mostly switch grass and of course acres and acres of cattail/wetland habitat, which is ideal cover during the winter. I spent a week hunting up there last December. No shortage of birds. and i was hunting on 100% public grounds, more than one month into the season.
there is no more predators now that in 1995. (I'd argue that there were more predators in 95 than now, just as there were more pheasants in 95 than now. go hand and hand.) Might seem so as cover declines year after year, the remaining cover acts as an 'island' for wildlife, predators focus on the concentration of birds on that island. 1.5 MM birds harvested in 1995 somehow made it past all these redtails. so that concentration of predators might make one think there are more out there, but they are just concentrated around the remaining habitat.
in the 50s, there were way more 40 acres farms. meaning fencerows. how many 40 acre farms do you see now? none. I.e. less fencing, less fencerows, less possible cover. i agree with you on that. foxtail and fencerows = cover.
The pheasant decline started after the 10 year programs you reference in the 80s stopped, and were taken out and put back into production. But has really escalated in the last few years when more and more cover was taken out. In 2006 corn went form $2 to $3 almost overnight (coinciding with the ethanol boom) if you want to point to a date for the rapid demise of the pheasant in Iowa, that would be a good start.
quail like the weed seeds better than pheasants. they really have taken the fall on the fencerow and weed destruction.
i agree that CRP planted in brome isn't good for any wildlife. BUT CRP does not have to be seeded from brome. that is just incorrect. maybe brome to get initial establishment. I know so many farmers who do/did a mix of prairie grass for their CRP. Most did switch and bluestem. heck, the program even allowed for trees to be planted.
if birds don't have cover, snow kills them. i agree that ice is horrible, but snow, blowing snow and cold no doubt takes its toll. and when cover is down, the birds will concentrate in the existing cover areas, making them easier to find by the predators. I have read that each week that there is snowcover, 4% of the population dies. puts a lot of stress on a bird - a lot of energy required to live - dig for food, stay warm, etc.
regarding pesticides, I think one problem that isn't being discussed are the new nicotinoid and neo-nicotinoid pesticides. young pheasants dine on insects. these new pesticides are wiping out everything they touch. no insects=decreased feed options for birds. early season pheasants often had grasshoppers in their crop - I haven't noticed that for years. the neo-nicotinoids are also linked to the colony collapse disorder of honey bees but that is another discussion.
Finally I found an article written in 1979 - it is just the first page of the article, but what is written about what was going on with pheasants then very much applies now. pretty simple, i think.
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farmer - the custodian of the land. uh huh.
unfortunately, current practice of taking everything out up to the road, up to the stream's edge (including trees, buffer strips, fencerows, etc) affects more than our little pheasant. and if the ground is a little low - hey just throw some more tile at the problem.
I'm actually staying in Iowa temporarily (most likely for the rest of the winter) which is why I was asking.
Bringing up the preserve is a good point. I was never much into preserves until I picked up the lab and then I realized how vital a preserve is in regards to their training. There's a preserve in southern Missouri that I used quite often to help 'fine tune' her abilities. I appreciate you mentioning Pheasant Haven and I'll definitely check out their website.
During all this discussion I hadn't even given any thought about the quail populations. When I was hunting on a regular basis in Greene and mostly Guthrie it wasn't uncommon to run into the occasional covey of partridge. I'm guessing their numbers are pretty much obliterated.
- NW Iowa, at least around here, does not have a lot of alfalfa and our numbers have been holding steady ofr a while. I have hunted here for 16 years since I git married and the pheasant hunting has actually improved. There has been very little , if any CRP taken out and the farmers around here have always farmed road ditch to road ditch. Most even bale their waterways
- I have hunted eastern iowa for 20+ years. I was able to get my limit every year in about 3-4 hours. Then a couple of years ago, they had over 100" of snow and the pheasants disappear. Gone. So in the fall, plenty of pheasants...heavy snow, wet spring, next fall we didn't see one single pheasant.
- Predatoirs have always been an issue with pheasants. That has happened since pheasants were introduced to the US. So while they are an issue,it has always been an issue. Maybe slightly larger since fewer people hunt and trap those predators
- Depth of snow and length of snow cover is a little different in North Central, NE, and NW Iowa than it is in SW Iowa. I don't know that you can make assumptions for the whole state based on what you see in SM Iowa.
You are absolutely looney thinking the record snows had no affect. And before you bring up the Dakotas, look at their average precipitation in the winter months. It isn't overwhelming. As a matter of fact, they are pretty dry and most areas average less than 1.5" in Dec-Feb. And in the mid 90s they got hammered and their population dropped significantly(almost in half) but since they still had good number they rebounded immediately.
CyPride, I repeat our maximum allowable number of acres of CRP has remained constant in this County approximately since 1985 as has all of Southern Ia. Remember, I am speaking only to the area I know well. The comment you made "farmers - the custodian of the land. uh huh." speaks to your evident bias.
I don't follow the logic here, it just looks to me that everyone is out for their own interests:
A) farmers farm the land to make money
B) pheasant hunters (for the most part) don't farm and therefore make no money off the land, but would rather see large tracks of pheasant cover to increase populations so they can kill the birds
It is a case of the golden rule, he who has the gold rules and in this case, the farmers have control of the land and will do with it what the market demands.
A) farmers farm the land to make money
B) pheasant hunters (for the most part) don't farm and therefore make no money off the land, but would rather see large tracks of pheasant cover to increase populations so they can kill the birds
It is a case of the golden rule, he who has the gold rules and in this case, the farmers have control of the land and will do with it what the market demands.
Ameshammer, the nailhead has been hit. On a positive note, much to help pheasant repopulation could be done with cooperation between govt. agencies that the farmer deals with. FSA and to a lesser degree NRCS are the two farm agencies that have their thumb on the farmer and his practises. For some unknown reason (by us, the farmer) little cross discussion or meaningful dialogue takes place between the three players: the farmer (who controls the land), the govt. agnecy (who controls the farmer) and the DNR (who controls the Hunter). In my view, lots of good habitat could be estblished on required seeded areas that the farmer must establish in order to be in compliance with his "farm plan". For example, we must seed down strips of ground on our end rows that show erodible criteria, these areas could be feed plots very easily. Virtually every rolling field in Southern Ia. have these required areas. (not required on flat fields).
There is a guy east of Coon Rapids that does private hunts fairly reasonable. Think it's like $60 bucks a head. I hunt Carroll County and only go out opening day and maybe 2 times after that. Can't justify the money spent on gas driving vs. birds I see ditch hunting. The times I do go out we don't do to bad, have some private land in south Carroll County we hit, never limit out but always get birds. Last fall I talked wives grandpa out of spending the money for an out of state license. If it wasn't so damn expensive it wouldn't be so bad, but Iowa doesn't seem to offer an affordable 3 day license, so I personally don't see that it's worth it.
Tazclone, take a deep breath. I never said I had any answers and that I spoke only for my observations in my approximate 60 mile area. Definately not for any other part of Ia. I do not think anyone can explain definately why the extreme dropoff in numbers occurred. I did say drastic action needs to be done instead of the handwringing. My comment in regard to being a tree-hugging Hawkeye grad or ISU ag grade was made in jest, don't take it personal. Unless of course you are a tree-hugging Hawkeye and then you can take it personal.
you never cleared up your comment about CRP being the demise of the pheasant population. that comment speaks to your evident ignorance.
