***Rider Dual in Stephens 2:00PM on Sunday***

[djhart69]

Right. If Dresser and staff are in their 7th year like KJ was and the program is going the wrong direction that will be bad. KJ took over a top 3 program and ran it into the ground.

Dresser is taking it over from rock bottom and trying to bring it up. Realistically going to need 3-4 years to see this take shape. Although, I expect by next year ISU is beating Drexel and Rider. Year 3 I think they are a top 20 program, and year 4 pushing for top 10.

I think your recollection may be a bit off. In 2015/2016 when the team was 10-6 they did not have a brutal schedule. They beat 1 NAIA team, and a bunch of barely D1 teams (George Mason, Chattanooga, West Virginia). They were killed by any team that was any good (OSU, Minnesota, Iowa). Their NCAA performance was artificially inflated thanks to Pat Downey. This was typical of the Jackson era. He would wrestle a bunch of cupcakes and pull 1-2 high AAs out of his a$$ at nationals to give the appearance that things were better than they were. The shell game fell apart completely last year.

What I was trying to say or what I thought I said was that just 2 years ago we were beating those 'barely D1 schools' and beating the likes of UNI, Central Michigan and Wyoming and beating #4 Virginia Tech at the Virginia Duals and only losing to powerhouses (4 of 6 losses were to top 7 teams), finishing 3rd at the Big 12s and taking home 3 medals at the NCAAs. We were very respectable at that time. And there are no 'artificially inflated' numbers at the NCAA tourney, either you win matches and score points or you don't.

I never saw a steady decline in the Jackson era, I saw a respectable program just completely fall off a cliff last year and I certainly didn't see it coming.

 

[SimpsonCyclone]

I personally think Storr goes to 149 next year. But that will depend on getting good results at 133/141 this year. If Storr/Parker/Simmons are fringe top 20 guys by seasons end, I think they stay put and battle it out with Gomez. If they step up, then I think Storr goes 149 and Simmons, Gomez and Parker fight for 133/141.

Pretty sure Degen and Leisure have to be think of going to 157 for their best chance to make the lineup in the future

That would be ideal, but do you really think Storr will be 149 next year? He doesn't even look big at all this year for 141 IMO. He looked much smaller than the Rider kid. However, I know that weight can be deceiving.

 

[CyAGR]

I personally believe the honeymoon period needs to last well into next year and possibly year 3 for this staff. It takes time to recruit and develop young guys, very few can come out of the gate at a very high level. This rebuild will take some time but continued support towards the team and staff will be worth it. It will be fun to watch the progress over the season and into the future.

 

[meluvwrestling]

I personally think Storr goes to 149 next year. But that will depend on getting good results at 133/141 this year. If Storr/Parker/Simmons are fringe top 20 guys by seasons end, I think they stay put and battle it out with Gomez. If they step up, then I think Storr goes 149 and Simmons, Gomez and Parker fight for 133/141.

Pretty sure Degen and Leisure have to be think of going to 157 for their best chance to make the lineup in the future

I don't see Storr beating out Dante Rodriguez or Jarrett Degen for the 149# spot next season. Gomez is big and I wouldn't be suprised to see him wrestling for the 141# spot.

 

[cyclonenation5]

I don't see Storr beating out Dante Rodriguez or Jarrett Degen for the 149# spot next season. Gomez is big and I wouldn't be suprised to see him wrestling for the 141# spot.

I don't think we've seen enough out of Degen, Dante, or Storr to make any educated guesses for that spot. Hell, we don't even know if Storr's going to bump up, and if he does, maybe Degen will go up to 157 as well.

I'm excited to watch this season, the postseason, and next offseason play out. I think a lot of things will be cleared up by next year.

I know it's a message board, and speculating is part of what these boards are for, but I just don't see how anyone can say who would beat who based on 5-10 matches of someone's RS Freshman year. All the guys listed have impressive wins, and all the guys listed have some disappointing losses. But that's wrestling. The best guy will win, in due time.

And for the record, I'd be surprised if Gomez was 141 next year. I think he goes 133, but again, I've been wrong plenty of times before.

 

[SimpsonCyclone]

I don't see Storr beating out Dante Rodriguez or Jarrett Degen for the 149# spot next season. Gomez is big and I wouldn't be suprised to see him wrestling for the 141# spot.

Good thing is we have so very good kids from 133-149 (how it should be)!
Really hope we can get a fix at 125 for next year. If so I think we should be a pretty solid dual team next year. And the chance at a pretty decent tourney team (top20).

 

[Judoka]

I guess ones outlook depends on whether you think last season was a disastrous meltdown or that the team really was that bad. Personally I think it was a disastrous meltdown and that's a big part of why it was so disappointing. The talent was there but was mismanaged to the extreme. Which is why we have a new staff this year. You can definitely look at our roster and say there are holes to fill, or say it'll take time to put the pieces together to be in contention for a team trophy. But to say the cupboard is bare and it'll take several years to even get back in to the top 20... that's setting expectations far too low for what we already have in the room based on actual match results both in prior years and this year so far.

 

[SimpsonCyclone]

I don't think we've seen enough out of Degen, Dante, or Storr to make any educated guesses for that spot. Hell, we don't even know if Storr's going to bump up, and if he does, maybe Degen will go up to 157 as well.

I'm excited to watch this season, the postseason, and next offseason play out. I think a lot of things will be cleared up by next year.

I know it's a message board, and speculating is part of what these boards are for, but I just don't see how anyone can say who would beat who based on 5-10 matches of someone's RS Freshman year. All the guys listed have impressive wins, and all the guys listed have some disappointing losses. But that's wrestling. The best guy will win, in due time.

And for the record, I'd be surprised if Gomez was 141 next year. I think he goes 133, but again, I've been wrong plenty of times before.

I agree with all of that. It will be fun talking about who will win at weights versus wondering how we fill the lineup with decent kids!

BTW - I agree, from what I've heard Gomez plans on being at 133 next year. I know things can change but that is his plan.

 

[buf87]

I personally think Storr goes to 149 next year. But that will depend on getting good results at 133/141 this year. If Storr/Parker/Simmons are fringe top 20 guys by seasons end, I think they stay put and battle it out with Gomez. If they step up, then I think Storr goes 149 and Simmons, Gomez and Parker fight for 133/141.

I agree with the above guys about what weights they end up. That is why I have the bold statement above mentioned. If they struggle at their current weights (performance wise), no sense moving them up unless the weight cut is part of the problem.

I do think, depending on how Straw develops. I like the improvements I have seen at Lindenwood and Rider from him.

We have a log jam at 133-149
My guess on order of weight based on rumored cuts. (Simmons, Gomez, Parker, Storr, Dante, Leisure, Degen) actually not sure if the cut is hard for Dante or Degen.

Someone needs to plan to bulk to 157-165.

I think Simmons is a 133 pounder.
Was told Parker has a hard cut to 141.
Not really sure on the rest.

 

[Judoka]

We'll learn a lot more about Parker, Storr, and Degen (plus everybody else) this weekend. As long as they don't drop matches to unranked guys and go home early they should get at least one, and possibly multiple, matches against guys ranked in the 11-20 range.

 

[Land Grant]

Somewhat agree. It might have ended in a meltdown, but that meltdown came at the end of a long, slow burn. Its not only that weights were mismanaged or that training may have been uneven/subpar (those things are perhaps more direct fixes). Rather, there seemed to be a poisoned psychology in the program--favoritism, lack of work ethic, mismatch of philosophies (between KJ and Paulsons), and finally a strange laxity of responsibility/commitment/pride. It felt increasingly like a culture of excuses rather than one of toughness and winning. That didn't happen overnight and, as others have noted, is not a quick fix--even with talent at hand.

That said, I'm optimistic.

I guess ones outlook depends on whether you think last season was a disastrous meltdown or that the team really was that bad. Personally I think it was a disastrous meltdown and that's a big part of why it was so disappointing. The talent was there but was mismanaged to the extreme. Which is why we have a new staff this year. You can definitely look at our roster and say there are holes to fill, or say it'll take time to put the pieces together to be in contention for a team trophy. But to say the cupboard is bare and it'll take several years to even get back in to the top 20... that's setting expectations far too low for what we already have in the room based on actual match results both in prior years and this year so far.

 

[matclone]

I just do not understand how people can be that negative with the lineup we are rolling out there. I do believe they will get better but we have more holes than rocks in the lineup so people need to temper their expectations. I was encouraged by yesterday's effort besides Parker getting pinned and I believe this is the benefit of having Simmons also available.
On a side note, do people believe there is any chance they pull the red shirt off of Coleman? Just wanted a feel from people closer to the program than myself.

I'm not any closer to the program than you, but in an interview earlier this year, Dresser seemed pretty clear in his intent to redshirt Coleman. He could change his mind of course, but the season's still young and I'm not sure the situation is all that desperate.

 

[crablegs]

But to say the cupboard is bare and it'll take several years to even get back in to the top 20... that's setting expectations far too low for what we already have in the room based on actual match results both in prior years and this year so far.

A top 20 team might only take 1 high AA to reach. Who on the team has the match results to suggest they’re at that level? There isn’t no one with the match results that’s you could even predict a low AA at this point.

You have Pestano and Harrington who suggest they’re fringe NCAA qualifiers. They’re a junior and senior, so I wouldn’t expect any kind of level jump from them.

Then you have a bunch of young guys that had good high school credentials. Don’t think anyone on the team has ever beaten an AA, but that’s just off the top of my head so correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[meluvwrestling]

I agree about the log jam. Simmons is to light/big for any weight except 133. My understanding is that Gomez has grown alot in the past year. I mean he was recruited to wrestle 125# and obviously that's not going to happen. If all 3 (Gomez, Simmons, Parker) stay at 133#, that's alot of talent. With that being said, all those wrestlers at 133-157 will have to do some serious moving in order to field the best team possible.

cyclonenation5
Dante has 2 season and Storr has one. Degen is the only one that has a small collegiate resume. If the RSFR was beating ranked opponents I would have to assume your opinion/speculation would be different.

 

[SimpsonCyclone]

I agree about the log jam. Simmons is to light/big for any weight except 133. My understanding is that Gomez has grown alot in the past year. I mean he was recruited to wrestle 125# and obviously that's not going to happen. If all 3 (Gomez, Simmons, Parker) stay at 133#, that's alot of talent. With that being said, all those wrestlers at 133-157 will have to do some serious moving in order to field the best team possible.

cyclonenation5
Dante has 2 season and Storr has one. Degen is the only one that has a small collegiate resume. If the RSFR was beating ranked opponents I would have to assume your opinion/speculation would be different.

Gomez was recruited to wrestle 125? That would be news to about everyone I know, including Austin.

 

[OOTClone]

Future = bright
The present = some young talent who will show great promise and hopefully steady progress.

The cupboard isn't bare, but the here and now isn't built for great success. The talent the team has isn't fully developed yet, but have the possibility of being a great team by the time they are juniors and seniors. To be a great team, you need some stability with upperclassmen in the line up who can score points for you. This team doesn't have that. This isn't a top 20 dual or tournament team right now, especially with the lack of a top point scorer (Downey 2016 for example). Whenever you have 3 guys ranked top 20 (but low), and no one in the top 10, you cannot expect great results yet. But, like has been said, I expect these types of numbers to change drastically by year 3, and continue to get better and better as the staff is here longer and longer.

One thing that has changed -- excitement around the athletes and the program. I enjoy watching the guys, they go out there and battle pretty hard, and look to score points. Their tanks are getting better (even early in the season) and look forward to how the team improves as the season goes along.

 

[meluvwrestling]

Gomez was recruited to wrestle 125? That would be news to about everyone I know, including Austin.

Early on in his recruiting process, he was recruited to be the future 125#. Below is an example of a article on Gomez. As his weight increased to 138# in HS, it became obvious that 125# would be a challenge and his projected weight changed to 125/133. There are multiple articles as well as Jackson saying the same thing.

https://iawrestle.com/2015/09/18/austin-gomez-commits-to-iowa-state/

 

[SimpsonCyclone]

Early on in his recruiting process, he was recruited to be the future 125#. Below is an example of a article on Gomez. As his weight increased to 138# in HS, it became obvious that 125# would be a challenge and his projected weight changed to 125/133. There are multiple articles as well as Jackson saying the same thing.

https://iawrestle.com/2015/09/18/austin-gomez-commits-to-iowa-state/

Ah gotcha! I thought you meant that when Dresser had to re-recruit him that he was thought of as a 125, which definitely wasn't the case.

That article you linked was from 2015 before his junior year in High School

 

[meluvwrestling]

Ah gotcha! I thought you meant that when Dresser had to re-recruit him that he was thought of as a 125, which definitely wasn't the case.

That article you linked was from 2015 before his junior year in High School

Yeah, Gomez was no longer a vaiable option for 125# when Dresser re-recurited him. I know that the roster has Gomez at 133# but it's my understanding that Gomez is/was planning on wrestling 141# this season, can you confirm which weight he plans on wrestling once cleared to wrestle? Gomez dad is a big guy so it wouldn't suprise me if Gomez has to cut alot weight to make 133#. Since he wrestled 138# his senior year in HS, one would have to assume he was cutting weight so 141# seems more managable weight for him.

 

[SimpsonCyclone]

Yeah, Gomez was no longer a vaiable option for 125# when Dresser re-recurited him. I know that the roster has Gomez at 133# but it's my understanding that Gomez is/was planning on wrestling 141# this season, can you confirm which weight he plans on wrestling once cleared to wrestle? Gomez dad is a big guy so it wouldn't suprise me if Gomez has to cut alot weight to make 133#. Since he wrestled 138# his senior year in HS, one would have to assume he was cutting weight so 141# seems more managable weight for him.

He didn't really cut weight his senior year for 138# as he wrestled up..and he plans on being a 133# to start and that's straight for the horses mouth. If things have changed in the last 2 months, then I could be off.