Elgin cook never made it to campus for some issues in his personal life. I think he's contributed at Oregon though.
SDW
- Thread starter 501Clone
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I've always given Fred a pass on Railey and McKnight. It was his first year and my guess is he was simply scrambling to fill up the roster. Okoro was a big miss. Elgin Cook has been decent at Oregon though. Hard to tell what went wrong with Sledge at Iona after a decent sophomore campaign.
I don't know if it's fair to call SDW a miss. Almost every team in school history he would have gotten playing time on, but this is the most talented team in school history and he was unable to pass Thomas to get into the rotation.
I don't know if it's fair to call SDW a miss. Almost every team in school history he would have gotten playing time on, but this is the most talented team in school history and he was unable to pass Thomas to get into the rotation.
I also kind of think ignore everyone from Fred's first class since he was pretty obviously reaching on warm bodies to play for that stop-gap year and hoping a couple turned out decent.
Anyone catch the centers name for the new team Sledge is on? If not this is it: Victor Ljuljdjuraj
That last name...
That last name...
Fred's high school recruiting non success early on was simply a product of his absolute total success with transfers.
Those guys just couldn't get PT. He was getting mid level Big 12 talent to come in from high school, but he was getting upper tier talent on the transfer market.
Those guys just couldn't get PT. He was getting mid level Big 12 talent to come in from high school, but he was getting upper tier talent on the transfer market.
Railey, Mcknight,Gibson, Sledge, Okoro, and (likely) SDW are/were not mid level big 12 talent and neither was (transfer) kj bluford for that matter. Although cfh is the isu golden child and we all love him, he has had his fair share of flat out misses. and that is ok. it has all worked out to this point. every coach has and will continue to have hits and misses.
a lot of it depends on how much the player is willing to work on their own too. seems like long could have ended up in the same boat but simply worked harder than anyone else on the team to find a way to get on the court. that is a lot of speculation on my part, but from everything we have read and seen from him, he seems to be a player that has had to work his ***** off to get where he is now.
1. Railey committed to McDermott. Fred kept him because he had like 7 scholarship players at all his first year. I believe McKnight was a late late add with Fred scrambling to get another scholarship player. Demarcus Phillups was another McD guy who Fred kept signed but transferred.
2. How many players that have transferred out have done so after playing significant minutes? Gibson maybe?
3. Guys like Okoro, Sledge, and SDW (especially) are guys that just couldn't get out from behind other players on the team who were JRs and SRs or very highly ranked. I'm not saying they were elite guys but they were ok Big 12 recruits. Especially SDW.
4. Yeah, Naz Long rides that super fine line between elite sharpshooter in the NCAA and low level Big 12 recruit.
He does deserve all the credit in the world for not just sitting there and trying to stick it out with misses... He did that, I doubt he's our coach now/much longer. It was those transfers or bust. Seeing that inefficiency in the market place to have access to players who are just as good/if not better than some of the 4* and 5* one-and-done kids out of high school was pretty nifty. Royce White and DeAndre Kane rank as two of the best players and two of the most unique talents in school history. BDJ is going to have a monster year in conference. Seeing that and hitching it to the ISU wagon has been pretty awesome and prompted a quick turnaround. There were some big swings and misses early, though. A Year 2 team with a core of Ejim, Gibson, and Sledge wasn't going to be willing many Big 12 games nor making the tournament.
Combining that with 3* and 4* high school recruits (Ejim, Niang, Morris) that eventually become all-conference and all-American performers is pretty nice, too. Fred has certainly coached them up, too--Naz is one of the "worst" there in terms of stars and reviews coming out of high school, but we all seem to be pretty happy with how that one turned out.
Naz, Fred, the corner three, and transfers... misfit toys that nobody else wanted... it's like Mr. Snyder down in Manhattan... that's all it took...
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A few things:
I don't think Gibson is terrible. He didn't really work with Fred's system, because he's a true low-post player and he can't step out and shoot. He's a center, he's not very versatile as far as his position. I think Percy will be successful at Oakland next year.
SDW is definitely good enough to play in the Big 12. I guarantee SDW would get solid playing time at every big 12 school except ISU, Texas and Kansas. Even Oklahoma could use him. He'd be one of the best players for Texas Tech and TCU.
I think it says a lot about Hoiberg that he's willing to part ways with recruits if they don't pan out fairly quickly/if he can tell they don't fit. Most coaches would be too proud to get rid of their own recruits like that. Admitting you missed like that probably isn't fun.
I don't think Gibson is terrible. He didn't really work with Fred's system, because he's a true low-post player and he can't step out and shoot. He's a center, he's not very versatile as far as his position. I think Percy will be successful at Oakland next year.
SDW is definitely good enough to play in the Big 12. I guarantee SDW would get solid playing time at every big 12 school except ISU, Texas and Kansas. Even Oklahoma could use him. He'd be one of the best players for Texas Tech and TCU.
I think it says a lot about Hoiberg that he's willing to part ways with recruits if they don't pan out fairly quickly/if he can tell they don't fit. Most coaches would be too proud to get rid of their own recruits like that. Admitting you missed like that probably isn't fun.
If what you say is true then SDW should be able to transfer to a very good school. I'd be willing to bet he stays more in the range of Detroit/Oakland though.
I just don't see why so many people are quick to say he's so good. He had plenty of chances to play and didnt really do much.
To say he would play for OU, Baylor, WVU etc is just silly.
Is he really that good? In PT he got he didn't impress me at all. He lacks confidence imo. Which is holding him back.
I think he could end up at low end P5 school still. It's hard to come in cold and make shots when you've sat the first 30 minutes of the game. You pretty much have to crack the rotation before the season to get meaningful playing time. Most of the time he was in with the others that don't play much so he didn't have the talent on the court to get him the same looks as our top players. Fred obviously thought he was talented if he redshirted him, he just didn't develop into the talent necessary to play on a top 10 team.
Railey is a stud....
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/101263/jordan-railey-dunks-on-a-roadrunner
(jimlad)
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/101263/jordan-railey-dunks-on-a-roadrunner
(jimlad)
1. Railey committed to McDermott. Fred kept him because he had like 7 scholarship players at all his first year. I believe McKnight was a late late add with Fred scrambling to get another scholarship player. Demarcus Phillups was another McD guy who Fred kept signed but transferred.
2. How many players that have transferred out have done so after playing significant minutes? Gibson maybe?
3. Guys like Okoro, Sledge, and SDW (especially) are guys that just couldn't get out from behind other players on the team who were JRs and SRs or very highly ranked. I'm not saying they were elite guys but they were ok Big 12 recruits. Especially SDW.
4. Yeah, Naz Long rides that super fine line between elite sharpshooter in the NCAA and low level Big 12 recruit.
1. you are right. can't hold fred accountable for another coaches recruits. fred did the thing any good human does in this situation and honored the school's commitment to honor the players scholarship offer.
2. this is true but why is this relevant? maybe i need to reread my original post.
3.SDW had better offers than most on the team (baylor, indiana, mich) as did okoro (arizona, pitt). both of them still haven't proven they are high major players. they still have time to do so and may end up proving themselves, but it is far from a given at this point.
4. we all love naz. he has turned into a great player/leader and critical component of this team. but he was a little bit of a project coming out of high school just like ejim was. both had a few decent offers but were far from thoroughbreds. naz has turned himself into a different player (as did ejim). he didn't come to isu as an elite shooting guard, but worked his ***** off to become one.
some projects work out better than others. SWD and okoro had equal if not better offers and were ranked higher out of high school than naz and ejim
lucky for isu, ejim and naz turned into the players they did.
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Yes Fred has had is misses, but he doesn't let them destroy the program. The way he has built this team he has been able to get the transfers to fix the misses. If you get something out of half of your high school recruits and 25% of them are stars you about have to call that a success in most programs.
I don't think it is fair to call SDW a "miss." He is more like the "odd man out." He had some opportunities, much like Naz did, but they didn't work out as well for SDW. Now that we are adding so many other good players, there is only room for those who click.
P.S. From the opportunities that Hoiberg gave him, I have to think that he was looking much better in practice than in the games. Ultimately, if he wanted to play in games, he was going to have to do it elsewhere.
P.S. From the opportunities that Hoiberg gave him, I have to think that he was looking much better in practice than in the games. Ultimately, if he wanted to play in games, he was going to have to do it elsewhere.
Didn't Ejim start just about every game his freshman year? I wouldn't exactly call him a project.
2. this is true but why is this relevant? maybe i need to reread my original post.
My point is if these guys had played earlier in their careers and not been behind such talented players, it's possible they would have blossomed into good players. They weren't given a bunch of minutes and failed miserably. They mostly couldn't get on the floor because of the talent ahead of them. Decent Big 12 recruits don't have to be instant impact guys, players usually take development. I think we are a little spoiled with our players contributing instantly at ISU.
3.SDW had better offers than most on the team (baylor, indiana, mich) as did okoro (arizona, pitt). both of them still haven't proven they are high major players. they still have time to do so and may end up proving themselves, but it is far from a given at this point.
He was a top 130 recruit. He was a big 12 level recruit. He's been stuck behind a lot of talented players. Not good enough to play on a top 20 team is not that same as not being a big 12 level recruit.
4. we all love naz. he has turned into a great player/leader and critical component of this team. but he was a little bit of a project coming out of high school just like ejim was. both had a few decent offers but were far from thoroughbreds. naz has turned himself into a different player (as did ejim). he didn't come to isu as an elite shooting guard, but worked his ***** off to become one.
I think Long is a perfect example. He didn't play his freshman year, and was slated to be a limited type role player his SO year. People brought up the same transfer rumblings that you heard about KO, Gibson, and SDW. Then Ejim got hurt and a spot opened up for him to play more significant minutes and he flourished. Of course that had to do with him working hard and getting thousands of shots up in the offseason, but if Ejim doesn't get hurt or if KJ Bluford was as good as, say, Tyrus McGee he wouldn't have seen the floor nearly as much. I think that lack of a spot or lack of playing time is what really hurt those guys.
