SEC/Big10 Pushing for 16 Team Playoff

[2speedy1]

I’d be shocked if a 5th place team ever got in. 4 I could see pretty easily but not 5. That would have to be a pretty wild year.

Also if you’re gonna let a G5 in you can’t use the arguement that you want teams only capable of winning a title. Otherwise we could have kept the playoffs at 4-6 teams and called it a day.

The problem with not allowing any G5, is it opens up a whole legal can of worms, they appease them by giving them a spot, knowing unless hell freezes over it really doesnt matter.

I have been one to say 8 is really the perfect number. 4 champs, 1 G5, 3 at large. No byes. Win your conf. or be a very very very good non winner, and win the playoff. No special treatments, no byes etc. Really 4 is close to the perfect number with the P4 now, just 4 champs, period, but with the legal issues etc with the G5 and ND the extra games are needed and need to have a set number to get no byes.

 

[bozclone]

Bama just got left out with fewer for a 12. It 100% is possible. This isn’t sabans bama

You right, Texas has replaced Bama as the other darling of the SEC

 

[HFCS]

Exactly my point, also forgot this is probably in regards to the playoff expansion (still don’t know the question that elicited this answer.

I could give a hypothetical using Michigan: they come in preseason ranked top 10, drop a week one game to a Texas/bama/ND type then go into conference play and pick up away losses to 2 ranked west coast teams (Oregon/USC for arguments sake) then pick up a third loss to sparty (rivalry games are always weirdly considered) but have wins over OSU, Penn state, (highly ranked) and then maybe another quality win over a t am like last years Indiana or this years Illinois.

Add in the cupcakes or mid tier wins and that gets you to 8-4 with an argument for a further expanded playoffs but my god is that an outlier scenario

My point would be last year's BYU at 10-2 shouldn't automatically get bounced for that 8-4 Michigan team which I'm sure is what Big Ten brass is promoting.

Using BYU because they were ranked 17th despite having an objectively better SOR than about 7 teams above them going into bowls/playoff.

At 16 teams 8-4 should be a very "bubble" team from a power conference if they have strong SOS, not some automatic lock at the expense of everybody else.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

The problem with not allowing any G5, is it opens up a whole legal can of worms, they appease them by giving them a spot, knowing unless hell freezes over it really doesnt matter.

I have been one to say 8 is really the perfect number. 4 champs, 1 G5, 3 at large. No byes. Win your conf. or be a very very very good non winner, and win the playoff. No special treatments, no byes etc. Really 4 is close to the perfect number with the P4 now, just 4 champs, period, but with the legal issues etc with the G5 and ND the extra games are needed and need to have a set number to get no byes.

Agree on the 8, disagree on opening up any legal can of worms

 

[2speedy1]

Agree on the 8, disagree on opening up any legal can of worms

I think if they dont give the G5 access it opens legal issues with legal and government intervention. I dont know how major that issue is, with other avenues to appease that issue possible. But Ive always understood that to keep everyone happy the G5 has to at least have access to the post season, at least in some form. Now maybe going with 8 with 4 power champs and 4 at large, in which the G5 is eligible for, maybe that would be ok too, but in past they have wanted more of an access chance. But at this point I think we are past that option.

Now I know there have been separate G5 playoffs being floated and for the G5 I think this might be a good idea, or in some aspects a bad idea.

 

[RustShack]

It’s pretty common for a G5 to be ranked high enough to make the playoffs anyways. I don’t mind them getting an auto bid.

 

[cyclones500]

It’s pretty common for a G5 to be ranked high enough to make the playoffs anyways. I don’t mind them getting an auto bid.

Almost always at least one worthy of close consideration for a 12-team, more so for 16-team.

With top 4 auto-bid bye removed, that helps because it doesn't overvalue G5 profile, it can land where it's deserved in pecking order.

In theory ... and assuming it would stay at 5-11 w/ 16-team.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

It’s pretty common for a G5 to be ranked high enough to make the playoffs anyways. I don’t mind them getting an auto bid.

Since when? No G5 team deserves anything for the payoff as they have zero chance of winning anything

 

[HFCS]

The problem with not allowing any G5, is it opens up a whole legal can of worms, they appease them by giving them a spot, knowing unless hell freezes over it really doesnt matter.

I have been one to say 8 is really the perfect number. 4 champs, 1 G5, 3 at large. No byes. Win your conf. or be a very very very good non winner, and win the playoff. No special treatments, no byes etc. Really 4 is close to the perfect number with the P4 now, just 4 champs, period, but with the legal issues etc with the G5 and ND the extra games are needed and need to have a set number to get no byes.

8 was always perfect. It would have worked back with 6 "BCS" conferences and it would work now with top 5 champs and 3 at large.

Several teams ranked 5th going into post season have ended up with legit National Championship claims/gripes when the dust settled, very rare but it has happened. No team ranked 9th going into bowls or 4 team playoff has ever had that claim, nobody even close.

8 would have kept "every game matters" which is what used to make college football the best regular season in all of sports by miles.

 

[HFCS]

It’s pretty common for a G5 to be ranked high enough to make the playoffs anyways. I don’t mind them getting an auto bid.

Looking at last few years, some of these teams are Big 12/ACC now but it paints picture that giving the top G5 team a guaranteed spot in 16 is a basic good idea and that they'd be seeded a little higher than 16 most years:

2024: #9 Boise State MWC champ, first out #22 Army
2023: #23 Liberty, first G5 out #24 SMU
2022: #16 Tulane, first G5 out #24 Troy St
2021: #4 Cincy, at large #13 BYU
2020: #9 Cincy, at large #12 Coastal Carolina
2019: #17 Memphis, first G5 out #19 Boise State
2018: #8 UCF, first G5 out #22 Boise State
2017: #14 UCF, first G5 out #20 Memphis
2016: #15 Western Michigan, first G5 out #24 Temple
2015: #18 Houston, first G5 out #21 Navy

With 16 teams it's totally worth it to always guarantee one G5. These years they are just outside top 16 they aren't way outside.

Looking at these 20 top 2 finishes, 7 of the 20 are in Big 12/ACC now. Less than I'd have guessed actually.

 

[ISUCyclones2015]

Looking at last few years, some of these teams are Big 12/ACC now but it paints picture that giving the top G5 team a guaranteed spot in 16 is a basic good idea and that they'd be seeded a little higher than 16 most years:

2024: #9 Boise State MWC champ, first out #22 Army
2023: #23 Liberty, first G5 out #24 SMU
2022: #16 Tulane, first G5 out #24 Troy St
2021: #4 Cincy, at large #13 BYU
2020: #9 Cincy, at large #12 Coastal Carolina
2019: #17 Memphis, first G5 out #19 Boise State
2018: #8 UCF, first G5 out #22 Boise State
2017: #14 UCF, first G5 out #20 Memphis
2016: #15 Western Michigan, first G5 out #24 Temple
2015: #18 Houston, first G5 out #21 Navy

With 16 teams it's totally worth it to always guarantee one G5. These years they are just outside top 16 they aren't way outside.

Looking at these 20 top 2 finishes, 7 of the 20 are in Big 12/ACC now. Less than I'd have guessed actually.

Or you can say 50% of the time a now Big12 team got the playoff spot with the ACC getting 0%.

 

[HFCS]

Or you can say 50% of the time a now Big12 team got the playoff spot with the ACC getting 0%.

That thought occurred to me. You could even include Stanford and Cal and the Big 12's G5 additions are better football than the three teams the ACC just added.

Big 12's Sagarin ranking last year without OU/Texas was just an eyelash below Big Ten and significantly gap before #4 ACC.

 

[NWICY]

No way Ohio State is left out of a 16 team playoff even if they have four losses and finish 5th in the conference. Same with Alabama and Georgia in the SEC. They might even get in with 5 losses. They would have to be awful for the committee to not spin a way to get them in.

I think we both agree they shouldn't get in but you are correct the committee would push for them to be included.

 

[cykadelic2]

Now I know there have been separate G5 playoffs being floated and for the G5 I think this might be a good idea, or in some aspects a bad idea.

G5 needs a separate playoff and with P4/G5 media rights pooling, the money would be available to adequately fund a separate G5 playoff where, at a minimum, every G5 conference champ would have a clear shot at a national championship like every other NCAA sport (and every other sport elsewhere on Earth).

 

[WooBadger18]

Since when? No G5 team deserves anything for the payoff as they have zero chance of winning anything

I don’t think you want that to be the standard, because otherwise why let in teams that don’t meet the Blue chip ratio? We know they aren’t going to win.

Michigan State wins the Big 10? Doesn’t matter, don’t let them into the playoff, we know they aren’t going to win

 

[WooBadger18]

G5 needs a separate playoff and with P4/G5 media rights pooling, the money would be available to adequately fund a separate G5 playoff where, at a minimum, every G5 conference champ would have a clear shot at a national championship like every other NCAA sport (and every other sport elsewhere on Earth).

Why? If they’re going to be in the same division, give them a chance to win the title.

 

[ZorkClone]

I don’t think you want that to be the standard, because otherwise why let in teams that don’t meet the Blue chip ratio? we know they aren’t going to win.

Michigan State wins the Big 10? Doesn’t matter, don’t let them into the playoff, we know they aren’t going to win

Hard agree, it's why I don't agree with the argument that the playoff is too big. It's like saying no low major has any chance of winning the NCAA tournament so we shouldn't let them in.

College football is beholden to tradition in some of the dumbest ways like valuing bowls over a real playoff. The playoff should have the exact same format of the FCS playoff, everyone who is part of the same league gets a chance.

 

[cykadelic2]

Why? If they’re going to be in the same division, give them a chance to win the title.

Ok, you have two options to include every G5 conference champ:

1) Include every G5 conference champ into the 16 team playoff with the P4 so you have 9 auto bids + 7.
2) Have a separate 8-team G5 playoff

Option #2 is, by far, the better, equitable and more entertaining option for both players and fans.

 

[WooBadger18]

Hard agree, it's why I don't agree with the argument that the playoff is too big. It's like saying no low major has any chance of winning the NCAA tournament so we shouldn't let them in.

College football is beholden to tradition in some of the dumbest ways like valuing bowls over a real playoff. The playoff should have the exact same format of the FCS playoff, everyone who is part of the same league gets a chance.

And you’d still have bids for a few at large teams.

 

[ZorkClone]

Ok, you have two options to include every G5 conference champ:

1) Include every G5 conference champ into the 16 team playoff with the P4 so you have 9 auto bids + 7.
2) Have a separate 8-team G5 playoff

Option #2 is, by far, the better, equitable and more entertaining option for both players and fans.

Or just do what the FCS format. Which would allow the G5 to possibly have some wins and wouldn't structurally eliminate teams from the title. I can't think of another sport that totally eliminates teams from contention in the title before the season even starts.