Should boys be allowed to join the Girl Scouts?
- Thread starter alaskaguy
- Start date
And that is the Boys Scouts' fault, how?
Im not assigning blame. Just really tired of the archaic notion that certain tasks, skills or benefits are reserved for a specific sex.
Is that slang for something too? Or, can he not really figure out how to use the can opener?
Sorry if I'm sounding like I'm making fun of your dad, but I'm just surprised that he knows so little about common sense activities. (which is somehow being blamed on the boy scouts)
The system we have in the Scouts has essentially led to the creation of two very separate entities. In the higher levels, you have the Venture scouts, and the Explorers and what not, but for the most part, boys go to Boy Scout troops, which have their meetings, and camp in BSA camps. Girl Scouts go off and do...whatever it is Girl Scouts do.
But that's not how it is across the world. In many countries, you have the Scouts and Guides. While some remain gender exclusive, some groups essentially have troops of both boys and girls. If nothing else, perhaps due to lack of resources or space, major events (ie big hikes, extended camps, badge activities...career fairs, etc) will often be held in conjunction with "Brother" and "Sister" troops.
As a Boy Scout, I was myself pretty skeptical of Girl Scouts until we had a troop of French-Canadian Girl Scouts sharing our campsite for a week... Good God they were beautiful...
However, I should add that, again, in the upper levels, girls, or should I say women, are certainly present in the Boy Scouts. Girls can join the off-shoots of the main BSA group. When I worked at a Scout camp for a summer, we had a large number of female counselors...I think at least one at the major camp sections, all the way up to one of the sub-camp manager/directors. On top of all that, mothers of Scouts are usually involved in the troop, with many troops having female Leaders. I don't know, or think that's the case with the Girl Scouts...but I could be wrong.
That said, this specific case is less about the distinction between Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, and more about the issue of where do transgender kids fit in to the whole thing. I wish I could say he'd be welcomed in the Boy Scouts, but I just don't think that's the case. Even if you find a "progressive" troop, chances are that somebody will complain and then like the issue of homosexuality, or religion, things could get out of hand.
But that's not how it is across the world. In many countries, you have the Scouts and Guides. While some remain gender exclusive, some groups essentially have troops of both boys and girls. If nothing else, perhaps due to lack of resources or space, major events (ie big hikes, extended camps, badge activities...career fairs, etc) will often be held in conjunction with "Brother" and "Sister" troops.
As a Boy Scout, I was myself pretty skeptical of Girl Scouts until we had a troop of French-Canadian Girl Scouts sharing our campsite for a week... Good God they were beautiful...
However, I should add that, again, in the upper levels, girls, or should I say women, are certainly present in the Boy Scouts. Girls can join the off-shoots of the main BSA group. When I worked at a Scout camp for a summer, we had a large number of female counselors...I think at least one at the major camp sections, all the way up to one of the sub-camp manager/directors. On top of all that, mothers of Scouts are usually involved in the troop, with many troops having female Leaders. I don't know, or think that's the case with the Girl Scouts...but I could be wrong.
That said, this specific case is less about the distinction between Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, and more about the issue of where do transgender kids fit in to the whole thing. I wish I could say he'd be welcomed in the Boy Scouts, but I just don't think that's the case. Even if you find a "progressive" troop, chances are that somebody will complain and then like the issue of homosexuality, or religion, things could get out of hand.
I'm not assigning blame on any scouting group.
I am trying to demonstrate (apparently, rather unsuccessfully) that the antiquated way of thinking, such as my parents' generation where the two sexes had very different roles and they were not to be muddled, is really not in society's best interest moving forward.
My parents are products of a generation where women sewed, canned, cooked, cleaned, etc., and raised kids. Men farmed, welded, built, etc., but they didn't sew or clean or cook or do anything that women were responsible for doing.
I don't think that's the issue here. You said it yourself: the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts teach life skills. However, they do it in a fashion that allows for brotherhood and sisterhood. As an Eagle Scout, I have a special place in my heart for these organizations, but there is a reason it's the "Boy" Scouts and the "Girl" Scouts.
Let's say this boy wants to go to summer camp. How is that going to work out in the locker room? At the Boy Scout camps that I went to, there was an adult male shower room, adult female shower room and a Boy Scout shower room. Taking the idea that he is no different than any other Girl Scout, are we really going to tell him he has to shower with the men? No, because that would make him "different" (which, by the way, he intrinsically is due to his genetic make up).
I'm all for gay rights and living as equal members of society. That is their right as human beings endowed by the Creator. However, there is a line and equality means that we all must play by the same rules. If the Girls Scouts will not accept one boy, then they should not accept the other.
Fair enough.
Which reminds me of something a little along the lines of society's interests, etc. I knew a girl who was in 7th grade last year and she didn't know how to read an analog clock. She said they didn't teach that anymore in her grade school since most things have gone to digital.
And another thing, at least over here in Illinois, they no longer teach parallel parking in driver's education. I asked an instructor why that was and they said because barely anybody could pass that portion of the class so they just took it out...
:skeptical:Just a couple examples of our evolving society. And I need to say one more thing, most kids these days are just flat out weak. Do they get coddled by their parents too much these days? Are they more spoiled than 20 years ago?
Sorry to drag this thread way OT, carry on..
Isn't this thread just a rehash of the Grinnell bathrooms thread? Who is making all of these? Yes, sometimes people with different genitals want to be in the same clubs or shower in the same room. Get over it.
D
DistrictCyclone
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Maybe Bobby saw that episode of Parks and Recreation a couple weeks ago where the kid defect's from Ron's scout group to join Leslie's.
Maybe he's just really confident in his game. Good for him; he'd be the only rooster in the henhouse.
Maybe he's just really confident in his game. Good for him; he'd be the only rooster in the henhouse.
Personally, I'm of the opinion Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts were created for a reason - one is for the betterment of boys, one is for the betterment of girls. My daughter won't be joining Boy Scouts, and if/when sons come along, they won't be joining Girl Scouts, either.
That being said, when society, particularly the US Judicial system, is attempting to shoehorn as many girls as possible into "tradtionally-male" organizations because these "traditionaly-male" organizations are "discriminatory", then hell yeah I think this boy should be allowed to join Girl Scouts. If joining Girl Scouts is what this little boy wants to do then this "anti-discrimination" door absolutely should swing both ways.
That being said, when society, particularly the US Judicial system, is attempting to shoehorn as many girls as possible into "tradtionally-male" organizations because these "traditionaly-male" organizations are "discriminatory", then hell yeah I think this boy should be allowed to join Girl Scouts. If joining Girl Scouts is what this little boy wants to do then this "anti-discrimination" door absolutely should swing both ways.
It probably stops with me wanting to join the volleyball team in high school and being completely dominant. But that's not the same because men are naturally more athletic. But we're equal, right? Society just oppresses the differences on us. But we're really equal. Except for that. Maybe. I'm confused.
Why can't everyone accept the activities presented to them and move on. Equality in the workforce is one thing, but every boy and girl wanting to do the other's activities specifically designed for the opposite sex is ridiculous.
"It is the dissimilarities and inequalities among men which give rise to the notion of honor; as such differences become less, it grows feeble; and when they disappear, it will vanish too." de Tocqueville
"Nurses" is a designation/occupation, and is not designed for men or women ONLY. That's just a **** poor analogy.
Actually, I find it even more disrespectful for a female to demand membership of a group that is for designed specifically for males. I'd find it equally disrespectful if it were the other way around. Keep in mind we are not talking about a job or a profession. We are talking about a club. Good grief, you sound like Darla from the Little Rascals all upset about not being allowed in the He Man Woman Hater's Club. The Boy Scouts are not "woman haters" simply because they prefer to be males only.
Obviously you didn't need the boy scouts in order to accomplish what you have done thus far in life. So what really is your beef? Are you just angry?
Sorry if my responses to the original post sounds angry - I'm not angry. Just trying to present my view.
As a member of this group who mostly observes, converses little, I find the mostly-males opinions on CF to be head-scratching at times. Women are okay if they're in yoga pants or cheerleading outfits. Otherwise women are only acceptable if we're in our traditionally-accepted roles and stay out of man caves.
:v_SPIN:
Believe this or not, but men and women are different, however you want to look at it. Men sometimes want to be only around other men, probably same with women. These are clubs, not jobs not "special" opportunities.
You complain about your father not being able to cook, but if your dad passes first you are in for an even bigger mess. Dad can go eat somewhere, but moms don't understand basic finances, taxes and yard work (this part can at least be hired). Firsthand experience here. Sounds like you are carrying a chip there.
I can't believe that this thread has been derailed into a Boy Scouts vs. Girl Scouts discussion instead of the real issue of interest here which is ... why in blazes are these parents trying to raise their 7 year old boy as a girl? It certainly isn't because that is what the child wants because children at that age don't have a clue about what they want. What we have here is parents (or a dominant parent) putting their child through a ridiculously difficult situation just to satisfy some misguided wish of their own.
If they really wanted to raise a girl, there are much better ways to do it.
If they really wanted to raise a girl, there are much better ways to do it.
I read the article and watched the video, and it didn't appear to me that the mom (dad was not referenced) was PUSHING her son to play with dolls, dress in girls clothes, wear long/braided hair, etc. From the story, which is all we have to go on, it sounds like the kid is choosing these things.
In that case, I think the issue is how much should mom interject to push her son back towards a masculine identity? Should I let my three daughters play with Hot Wheels and a Handy-Manny Toolset, or should I only let them play with their dolls and play kitchen?
I guess if it were me, I'd discourage the Girls Scouts idea and wait a few more years to see if he grows out of it (though he's already 7, so who knows).
Here's what I thought of when I read the title.
Say Yes To Gay (Season 5, Episode 3) - Video Clips - South Park Studios
Say Yes To Gay (Season 5, Episode 3) - Video Clips - South Park Studios
