Shut up about Wayne Morgan

[Cyclonestate78]

All the bull aside, the bottom line is Morgan had winning seasons, top 10 wins at home and on the road, and post season success. GMac has had none of these. Those are the facts you have to live with Morgan bashers, despite your best attempts to revise history.

In all fairness WM did a pretty good job recruiting, didn't do much coaching, and most certainly put the ISU basketball program in the crosshairs of the NCAA with the whole D1 Scheduling scandal. D1 Scheduling and it's founder who was being investigated at the time for funneling AAU players to the schools that were using his services to schedule games. In the world we live in now.... Guilt by association is just as bad as being guilty. That is why that parasite Doyle was all over the situation writing articles that ripped on the ISU program and all but pointed the finger of guilt at ISU for having a dirty program and a dirty coach. The potential damage just by the mere implication that there was dirty things going on with the ISU program was in my mind worth firing WM over. His firing was the only way ISU could save face at that point in time and not risk further damage to the program. For that I am glad he was axed.

WM is a good guy just like GMAC. I don't dislike either one of them personally but I would never EVER put the coach ahead of protecting the program's image or it's ability to compete at the highest level.

 

[CYKOFAN]

I think it's a better bet (and more fair) to reason that Morgan would have continued with the same success he had the first 3 seasons than to assume he would also have sunk to the levels we've seen under GMac.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

I think it's a better bet (and more fair) to reason that Morgan would have continued with the same success he had the first 3 seasons than to assume he would also have sunk to the levels we've seen under GMac.

Nobody will ever know and hopefully GMAC will soon find the same fate that WM did. He has to be fired at the end of this season.

 

[CYKOFAN]

To continue to use the scheduling flap as justification to fire Morgan just doesn't cut it. Many other programs also used outside sources to aid in scheduling, and the NCAA looked at the situation and said there was nothing worth investigating further, and no sanctions were issued. If JP wanted it discontinued, fine, but it certainly didn't justify firing Morgan.

 

[marothisu]

In all fairness WM did a pretty good job recruiting, didn't do much coaching, and most certainly put the ISU basketball program in the crosshairs of the NCAA with the whole D1 Scheduling scandal. D1 Scheduling and it's founder who was being investigated at the time for funneling AAU players to the schools that were using his services to schedule games. In the world we live in now.... Guilt by association is just as bad as being guilty. That is why that parasite Doyle was all over the situation writing articles that ripped on the ISU program and all but pointed the finger of guilt at ISU for having a dirty program and a dirty coach. The potential damage just by the mere implication that there was dirty things going on with the ISU program was in my mind worth firing WM over. His firing was the only way ISU could save face at that point in time and not risk further damage to the program. For that I am glad he was axed.

WM is a good guy just like GMAC. I don't dislike either one of them personally but I would never EVER put the coach ahead of protecting the program's image or it's ability to compete at the highest level.

This is where it's incorrect and why ISU never got burned by the NCAA. Anthony Davis was the guy in the crosshairs and while he went to LACC and this D1 Scheduling was accused of funneling Davis to ISU. Here's where it's incorrect. Davis originally commited to Morgan at Long Beach State, when Morgan was their head coach. He played a year at LBSU but redshirted. Then, Morgan came to ISU as an assistant and let Davis know. He told Davis he could play at ISU. Thus, Anthony Davis instead of continuing at LBSU, went to LACC to wait for Morgan (easy way of not sitting out a year but still getting to play at a higher level than HS..fine tune your game a little). Davis then came to ISU, for the coach he originally commited to and originally played for..Wayne Morgan.

Why is this important? Because Anthony Davis committed to Morgan before D1 Scheduling even existed as a company. I'm pretty sure he commited to ISU before that company even existed as well.

AAA Test Site - Cyclones Sign JUCO Shooter Anthony Davis


There's a reason nothing came out of this "scandal."

 

[jdoggivjc]

I think it's a better bet (and more fair) to reason that Morgan would have continued with the same success he had the first 3 seasons than to assume he would also have sunk to the levels we've seen under GMac.

We probably wouldn't have sunk this low, but I'm not convinced on the absolute success that some fans absolutely guarantee had we kept Morgan. First, who was lined up to take the place of the two guys that left for the draft? (I know Wesley Johnson was probably one of them, but WJ then certainly was not WJ now). 2006-07 was going to take one hell of a coaching job for a postseason experience, and Morgan never showed the ability to coach to that level. Second, guilt by association, as mentioned, could have been a huge detriment to the future of the team.

Like I said, there is a lot I didn't like about Morgan, and just because McDermott's tenure has been a failure doesn't mean I pine for Morgan's years either.

 

[isuno1fan]

Well the problem is you are remembering that team incorrectly (I think you are remembering LE's NIT team the year before). That team won over 20 ball games so it entered the NIT with somewhere around 18 or 19 wins. Plus, that team was 7-9 in the Big 12 and was a bubble team for the NCAA Tourney much of the year.

So, your belief is clearly based on an a faulty memory of that teams' record. Yes that team would have been in the NIT easily today. The constant use of revisionist history is one thing that is consistent among all Wayne Morgan bashers... they make things up to fit their view of the situation rather than looking at facts.

THIS!!!!

I am not remembering anything incorrectly. That team had a 16-12 overall record (7-9 in B12) prior to being selected for the NIT. In today's NIT...that is not even close to a guarantee of being selected. We ended up winning 20 games because we won 4 games in the NIT.
Had we not been invited (which is the case I am making in today's NIT), we would have finished 16-12.

 

[CYKOFAN]

I pine for post season games and post season success. I never guaranteed it would continue under Morgan, but we can think it could have considering his success up to that point. And I actually think Morgan's first two teams were well coached. Yes he used pressure and a running game, which is intended to create chaos for the opposing team and sometimes looks chaotic. But his first two teams also hit the boards hard and played good defense. His 3rd team had all first year bigs, but that problem would have been solved in his 4th year as our bigs gained experience and maturity. My point is if it hadn't been for the chaos in the program created by JP, we may well have had a line-up of Stinson, Blaylock, Clark, Jiri and Taggart in his 4th year. Can I guarantee that, no, and can I guantee that team would have gone to the NCAA, no, but imo it would have been likely.

 

[cyclonenum1]

I am not remembering anything incorrectly. That team had a 16-12 overall record (7-9 in B12) prior to being selected for the NIT. In today's NIT...that is not even close to a guarantee of being selected. We ended up winning 20 games because we won 4 games in the NIT.
Had we not been invited (which is the case I am making in today's NIT), we would have finished 16-12.

And this is inferior to the last four years in what way?

 

[CarolinaCy]

A couple more points about Morgan:

1.) His team that made the NIT final 4. I don't believe that team even makes the NIT with the current structure in place. You need to be much, MUCH better than a 16-13 ballclub or whatever we were to get in these days.

2.) I remember watching Morgan coached teams and the announcers (Fran F., etc.) would just scratch their heads at what the heck our team was doing. There was ZERO respect for Morgan's coaching abilities amongst any of his peers. His actions behind the scenes were on a fine line with the infractions committee of the NCAA and the athletes he was bringing to Ames have been proven to be dropouts, potheads, & criminals if you have followed their careers (See Theo Davis, P'Allen, etc.).

Honor before victory my friends.

Regarding the bolded part, why didn't this concern anyone when Tim Floyd was doing it? I believe this was the starting lineup from the '96-'97 season:

Jacy Holloway
Dedric Willoughby
Shawn Bankhead
Kenny Pratt
Kelvin Cato

I think those guys were all seniors that year, but IIRC only 1 of them actually graduated at the end of the year (Holloway). And I think Pratt's antics while at ISU and after speak for themselves.

 

[isuno1fan]

And this is inferior to the last four years in what way?

It's not. That's not the point I was making. I'm saying those that like to bring up WM's NIT run neglect that the team may not have even made the NIT under the GMac years with the same record.

 

[RhoadsRage]

I am not remembering anything incorrectly. That team had a 16-12 overall record (7-9 in B12) prior to being selected for the NIT. In today's NIT...that is not even close to a guarantee of being selected. We ended up winning 20 games because we won 4 games in the NIT.
Had we not been invited (which is the case I am making in today's NIT), we would have finished 16-12.

And when was the last time MCD won 7 in conference??? Oh that's right, we're STILL waiting for it.

 

[isuno1fan]

And when was the last time MCD won 7 in conference??? Oh that's right, we're STILL waiting for it.

Again...I'm not defending GMac's record....there's alot of room for improvement.

 

[Spam]

How much worse off would these players be if they played without a coach at all? What real contribution is GM making? What is he really adding?

 

[BryceC]

2.) I remember watching Morgan coached teams and the announcers (Fran F., etc.) would just scratch their heads at what the heck our team was doing. There was ZERO respect for Morgan's coaching abilities amongst any of his peers.

It wouldn't surprise me if Fran was scratching his head at Morgan's teams, his teams didn't win either. Who the frick cares what Fran thinks as long as the team wins?

 

[akclone]

It's not. That's not the point I was making. I'm saying those that like to bring up WM's NIT run neglect that the team may not have even made the NIT under the GMac years with the same record.

What exactly are you trying to say? It doesn't matter what may or may not have happened in another year. It only matters what happened that particular year.

 

[brianhos]

Yes, lets talk about the future, one without McD.

 

[Wesley]

I'm not sure if people would be beating down his door, but I'm fairly certain he would have a head coaching position in two years.

Once again though my primary focus was on the idea that WM was more passionate. Clearly that is a false assertion.

Barry Collier went back to Butler and became AD.

 

[Wesley]

Probably every single team in the MOValley except for UNI and Creighton. :yes:

The guy is a mid major coach if there ever was one. He is Steve Alford 2.0. He tore it up in the MOValley, he stunk it up at a Major conference job for far too long, and he will go back toa mid major job and tear it up again.

Look... There are mid major coaches and there are Major Conference coaches.... It is what it is and based on results it is very clear what level he should be coaching at.

Four MVC schools have a better RPI than we do. They probably would not switch.

 

[cyismydog]

I think people will stop mentioning Morgan when McDermott actually has a season that is better than the one that got Morgan fired.

The product on the floor was not what got Morgan fired.