Mckay went from Conference DPOY playing only 2nd semester to the guy every B12 offense game planned to attack as the weak link... that happened because Prohm made him go to class?
State of ISU MBB if we had hired Otz instead of Prohm?
- Thread starter UnCytely
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Mckay went from Conference DPOY playing only 2nd semester to the guy every B12 offense game planned to attack as the weak link... that happened because Prohm made him go to class?
Didn't win the Big 12.
Two bad games (or even really just a few bad possessions) at the end of that at KSU and home Baylor games late that season go better because the team is more focused and... we're raising a banner.
And we're the only ones raising it. We would have ended Kansas' streak.
But nah, St. Fred went 2-2 and ****** it up and left us.
Definitely more of a rim protector, but wasn’t he Big 12 DPOY in 2015 or something like that?
Minimum tie for Big 12 regular season title if they have their **** together at Tech, KSU, or the last few minutes of the Baylor game.
That was more of a definition of that group though than a coaching thing. Talented but slight dysfunction seemed to do them in....better record but sort of similar to the 18-19 group (minus the freefall of course--THAT was a management issue).
Yes but he seemed better at helping and being a presence than really being able to man up.
Similar on offense--great the rim run/lob sort of stuff but limited on the handle and feet when it came down to it.
When he was playing he was effective and electric though for sure.
Neither do I, but good coaches put players in position to succeed at what they do well.
So let me get this straight.
When Fred's players let their egos get the best of them and blow a golden opportunity to accomplish many of their wildest dreams coming into the season, it is on them and not the coaching staff and job being done.
But when basically the same thing happens with Prohm's players, then it is Prohm's fault.
I see now. Thank you for clarifying.
I hope the sarcasm was evident, though. I think both of those situations exploded badly enough where there was plenty of blame to go around between both generations of players, Hoiberg, and Prohm.
Hoiberg didn't need to bring a known hothead in BDJ into the program, but he chose too. Prohm could have kept a lid on basically everybody getting a big head about themselves that year, but he didn't.
He was good in a full-court system and had some limited uses in the half-court (e.g., going for boards or lurking in the dunker spot for Morris or Niang to feed him an easy one). But not much else.
Only have six viable Big 12 players (and two big men) his second season really hurt him. Prohm slowed the pace down so we wouldn't exhaust ourselves. Having a healthy Naz and Max Bielfeldt on the bench so we've have an acceptable secondary big man to backup Georges and McKay would have changed a lot of things.
It just floors me that people blame Fred for leaving Prohm a loaded team, even years after it was 100% Prohms team. Especially in a day and age where you can completely overhaul a team in just a few months. This is already TJ’s team with just a few guys left over. And I’ll bet anyone however much you want that Tj’s first year will be better than Prohms last.
Perhaps I should have added more--I don't think FH was the whisperer that some seem to think he was. I don't think it's ever been fully out there about what happened with that last team but it sounds like there was some weirdness and it showed...sounded like Fred didn't figure out how to fully right the ship, but he didn't let it bottom out like the 18-19 group.
In Prohm's first two seasons he seemed to use the tactic to let the team figure it out and that went over the edge in 18-19.
Both were poor management issues and player issues, but I give the edge to the 18-19 for the worst management of the two only from a very outside perspective.
I do not know if we will ever learn enough to judge them fairly, unless CW writes a true tell-all book.
That being said, I think hindsight would describe Fred less as Phil Jackson -- the Zen master somehow able to manage the egos and martial the talents of a discordant group led by some difficult and unique personalities -- as more of a gambler. A guy who got lucky and kept the discord under wraps his first few seasons, or at least appeared to do so, but one who lived on the edge. He willingly let some malignant personalities into the program (along with some great ones, to be fair), he ran a loose ship, and he didn't seem to enforce team discipline on or off the court much.
He kept rolling "double or nothin'" until 2015 when his luck ran out and he bolted.
Prohm was more outwardly bad at it, sure, but I am not so sure the behind-the-music documentary about the Hoiberg era, if and when something like that would ever come out, would not describe something of a mess.
Writing all that just makes me realize all the more how opposite Hoiberg and Campbell are in these regards. Campbell wants every brick laid perfectly from the start; Hoiberg doesn't care as long as the wall stands up.
Here's what we know. Steve Prohm was not qualified to handle Fred's jock let alone try to coach the team. Fred created the atmosphere for the elusive step to the "next level" and Steve destroyed it. And the destruction began in his first year. Steve Prohm was a BIGGER mistake than Donnie Duncan.
Lol, weren't you the one that keeps telling me to move on about the Fred vs Prohm stuff?
