Texas needs to go

[Tre4ISU]

I hate to be blunt, but most likely if Texas leaves ISU stands a a decent probability of losing their BCS tie in..

Very simply where would UT's other sports play if they went independent? That pretty much kills that thinking from the get go.. If they aren't going independent then the age of superconferences are upon us. That really does not shake out well for ISU.

Superconferences are so much better for ISU than Texas simply going Indy, it's not funny and here's why:

Let's say Texas goes to the SEC along with aTm, OU, and OSU. OK, so then, the Big Ten would go to 16. Who do they take? Let's say ND jumps. Then maybe Mizzou. Then they can do a couple different things. THey can go east and take maybe Pitt and Rutgers. Otherwise they can take ISU and someone. Now, if they do the former, then the Big East needs teams. They would then likely take ISU, KSU, KU, TT, and Baylor along with moving up someone like Memphis or something. The whole idea of superconferences IMO, isn't that bad for ISU because an AQ conference is not going to pull a team from non AQ status and very limited infrastructure and fan support over ISU. It just won't happen. I didn't even include the PAC 10 in that scenario. They would still need more teams to get to 16 if they wanted.

 

[jsmith86]

Here's my honest opinion about Hawk fans as it relates to the Big 12 thing:

I believe I have made my opinion known on how I feel about Cyclone fans rooting for the failure of Iowa instead of simply rooting for our success. I don't like it. I don't like the fact that we are constantly measuring ourselves against Iowa. I don't like it when we feel better when Iowa losses than we win. That said, Iowa is doing the same thing right now albeit to a different extent.

My belief is that right now, I think Iowa feels a pressure that maybe they haven't felt in 10-15 years. I think they see what CPR is doing. I think they can see that, in time, our program could become something that they have to take very seriously all of the time. Yes, I know we beat them 5 times in a row but that was in the early KF years. Since their maturation, if you will, they have not had to neccesarily worry about ISU. Could we beat them? Sure, but as the last 3 years have shown, we haven't been near them. I think that's changing and I think they can see that. I'm not saying I think they think they will be our *****, but I think they see we are improving. Then they look at basketball. They see the talent we have put together and see there is reason to be excited in Ames. They don't have that positivity. Fran has gotten some good players and that team played hard but when compared to the talent ISU will put on the court, it isn't close.

In the end, I honestly think that the Hawks see this whole conference explosion deal as a way to keep ISU from getting over the hump. That may be their only defense. If the Big 12 goes on for another 10 years, I could see us having much more success in basketball and getting to a level in football, where year to year, either team may be better. I honestly believe that. Call me a homer or Koo-laid drinker or whatever, but I think we are on the upswing and Iowa may not be anymore. I mean KF, whether we want to admit it or not, has gotten that program to a point where they can compete for Big 10 titles year in and year out. There isn't much room left to grow and outside of resources (which will even out somewhat with the new contracts) and history, they don't have advantages on us. On the history part, I don't know if Iowa carries a lot more clout than we do in the South. Contrary to their belief, they aren't a national power.

Here in Oklahoma at least, every hawk fan that I have met has actually gone to the school. Other than the one hawk who drove past me flipping the bird when he noticed my cyclone license plate, they even seem to be decent people. Unfortunately, these two things tend to mean that you aren't a national power. I know a number of fans of ND and the U who have nothing to do with those two schools and that seems to me to be more indicative of a school being a national power than anything else.

 

[FarminCy]

I hate to be blunt, but most likely if Texas leaves ISU stands a a decent probability of losing their BCS tie in..

Very simply where would UT's other sports play if they went independent? That pretty much kills that thinking from the get go.. If they aren't going independent then the age of superconferences are upon us. That really does not shake out well for ISU.

I honestly think there will be too much political pressure to allow the super conferences to start. Some areas economies could suffer greatly if college football basically turns into 64 teams. There are some in politics that would fight against super conferences if their state could stand to lose jobs, etc.

My concern is if it all starts to shake out if our politicians mainly our governor would go to bat for ISU.

 

[tm3308]

Here's my honest opinion about Hawk fans as it relates to the Big 12 thing:

I believe I have made my opinion known on how I feel about Cyclone fans rooting for the failure of Iowa instead of simply rooting for our success. I don't like it. I don't like the fact that we are constantly measuring ourselves against Iowa. I don't like it when we feel better when Iowa losses than we win. That said, Iowa is doing the same thing right now albeit to a different extent.

My belief is that right now, I think Iowa feels a pressure that maybe they haven't felt in 10-15 years. I think they see what CPR is doing. I think they can see that, in time, our program could become something that they have to take very seriously all of the time. Yes, I know we beat them 5 times in a row but that was in the early KF years. Since their maturation, if you will, they have not had to neccesarily worry about ISU. Could we beat them? Sure, but as the last 3 years have shown, we haven't been near them. I think that's changing and I think they can see that. I'm not saying I think they think they will be our *****, but I think they see we are improving. Then they look at basketball. They see the talent we have put together and see there is reason to be excited in Ames. They don't have that positivity. Fran has gotten some good players and that team played hard but when compared to the talent ISU will put on the court, it isn't close.

In the end, I honestly think that the Hawks see this whole conference explosion deal as a way to keep ISU from getting over the hump. That may be their only defense. If the Big 12 goes on for another 10 years, I could see us having much more success in basketball and getting to a level in football, where year to year, either team may be better. I honestly believe that. Call me a homer or Koo-laid drinker or whatever, but I think we are on the upswing and Iowa may not be anymore. I mean KF, whether we want to admit it or not, has gotten that program to a point where they can compete for Big 10 titles year in and year out. There isn't much room left to grow and outside of resources (which will even out somewhat with the new contracts) and history, they don't have advantages on us. On the history part, I don't know if Iowa carries a lot more clout than we do in the South. Contrary to their belief, they aren't a national power.

Iowa is not a national power, certainly not in the way that Ohio State, Texas, Florida, etc. are. We've been one of the top 25 teams of the past 20-30 years, but we're not elite, and likely never will be. Like you said, we don't carry a lot of clout down south.

I suppose in a way, it could be like a comparison of Albert Pujols and Adrian Gonzalez. Gonzalez is a terrific player, maybe eventually one of the all-timers. And while he's having a better year than Pujols right now, Pujols is the one whose name comes up when talking about the best player in the game.

 

[trajanJ]

Superconferences are so much better for ISU than Texas simply going Indy, it's not funny and here's why:

Let's say Texas goes to the SEC along with aTm, OU, and OSU. OK, so then, the Big Ten would go to 16. Who do they take? Let's say ND jumps. Then maybe Mizzou. Then they can do a couple different things. THey can go east and take maybe Pitt and Rutgers. Otherwise they can take ISU and someone. Now, if they do the former, then the Big East needs teams. They would then likely take ISU, KSU, KU, TT, and Baylor along with moving up someone like Memphis or something. The whole idea of superconferences IMO, isn't that bad for ISU because an AQ conference is not going to pull a team from non AQ status and very limited infrastructure and fan support over ISU. It just won't happen. I didn't even include the PAC 10 in that scenario. They would still need more teams to get to 16 if they wanted.

If the superconferences actually happens the Big East is gone along with us. The superconferences only works if there is 4 - 16 team conferences. The four survivors will be PAC, Big 10, SEC and ACC. That's 64 teams. The problem some of the left out teams have is some non AQ status teams might move up like Utah has already.

 

[laxtonto]

If the superconferences actually happens the Big East is gone along with us. The superconferences only works if there is 4 - 16 team conferences. The four survivors will be PAC, Big 10, SEC and ACC. That's 64 teams. The problem some of the left out teams have is some non AQ status teams might move up like Utah has already.

Yep... Go through the MWC, Big 12, CUSA, BE and WAC (ha ha) and find the top 16 teams (or even 1p if you allow Texas, BYU and ND independent waivers)...

Lets see.. Teams that are locks.. (12)

Texas
ND
BYU
OU
OSU
A&M
WV
TCU
Pitt
Mizzou
Louisville
Syracuse

Teams that would be competing for ISU for one of the at most 7 spots left

Uconn
Rutgers
TT
UCF
USF
UK
ECU
UH
Hawaii
Fresno
Boise St
Memphis
Rutgers

and there are several other teams I could add as well to the list..

If there are only 64 (67) spots and the current big 4 conferences would not be booting members, it is very possible to see ISU on the outside looking in. Where would ISU rank out of the left over schools?

 

[AllIowaTeams]

Here's my honest opinion about Hawk fans as it relates to the Big 12 thing:

I believe I have made my opinion known on how I feel about Cyclone fans rooting for the failure of Iowa instead of simply rooting for our success. I don't like it. I don't like the fact that we are constantly measuring ourselves against Iowa. I don't like it when we feel better when Iowa losses than we win. That said, Iowa is doing the same thing right now albeit to a different extent.

My belief is that right now, I think Iowa feels a pressure that maybe they haven't felt in 10-15 years. I think they see what CPR is doing. I think they can see that, in time, our program could become something that they have to take very seriously all of the time. Yes, I know we beat them 5 times in a row but that was in the early KF years. Since their maturation, if you will, they have not had to neccesarily worry about ISU. Could we beat them? Sure, but as the last 3 years have shown, we haven't been near them. I think that's changing and I think they can see that. I'm not saying I think they think they will be our *****, but I think they see we are improving. Then they look at basketball. They see the talent we have put together and see there is reason to be excited in Ames. They don't have that positivity. Fran has gotten some good players and that team played hard but when compared to the talent ISU will put on the court, it isn't close.

In the end, I honestly think that the Hawks see this whole conference explosion deal as a way to keep ISU from getting over the hump. That may be their only defense. If the Big 12 goes on for another 10 years, I could see us having much more success in basketball and getting to a level in football, where year to year, either team may be better. I honestly believe that. Call me a homer or Koo-laid drinker or whatever, but I think we are on the upswing and Iowa may not be anymore. I mean KF, whether we want to admit it or not, has gotten that program to a point where they can compete for Big 10 titles year in and year out. There isn't much room left to grow and outside of resources (which will even out somewhat with the new contracts) and history, they don't have advantages on us. On the history part, I don't know if Iowa carries a lot more clout than we do in the South. Contrary to their belief, they aren't a national power.

I understand your thinking process in this post Yaman, but I disagree with a fair amount of it. Respectfully disagree of course.

IMO, you are doing quite a bit of assuming that isn't backed up at this point. You assume Iowa State will get to a point in the next decade where their football success will be very similar to Iowa's, but nothing really backs this up. Right now they are the Iowa basketball to ISU basketball, except Iowa's football talent has proven it on the field, whereas the ISU basketball talent has yet to prove anything.

Now, I want to interject myself here and say that I completely agree that ISU basketball will be putting far more talent on the court this season, and for the foreseeable future. Not only that, but I think they have a great shot at the NCAA tournament and Iowa clearly, painfully clearly, does not. I love Fred Hoiberg, and AM threatened by what he's doing in Ames, and I'm not ashamed to admit that. Some Hawk fans gave ISU fans a lot of crap for the transfer strategy, but really outside of a couple players he's recruited I would take the rest of them on Iowa in a second.

I think that ISU football fans see their talent the same way Iowa basketball fans see their talent. Iowa fans love Basabe, Cartwright, White, etc. but in the grand scheme of things they are average to slightly above average at this point. This is the same way I feel that ISU fans feel about ISU football. I know ISU fans are excited about the talent they have and some of the recruits coming in, but in the grand scheme their recruiting ranks are consistently near the bottom of the BCS teams. The excitement is there, but the recruiting ranks, NFL draft picks, and results on the field don't back up that excitement. Much like Iowa basketball.

You say that ISU hasn't been near Iowa the last 3 years in football, yet you also say that's changing, but I guess I don't see why you think that's changing. The games the last 2 years haven't been remotely competitive, and Iowa State has yet to have a "wow" game under Paul Rhoads. They won at Texas, which was contextually impressive, but overall it didn't gain them anything. I like Paul Rhoads, but at this point in time I just don't feel threatened by what he's doing in Ames. Much like ISU fans don't feel threatened by what Fran is doing in Iowa City.

At this point in time I think there's just as much to be excited about in terms of Iowa basketball as there is about ISU football. The recruits appear to be a little better than what their predecessors brought in, but that hasn't translated on the field/court. Both teams are clearly more fun to watch than they were under the previous coaches, but both have a LONG ways to go before they will be considered relevant to anyone outside of our own fanbases.

You say there isn't room to grow for Iowa football, but I think there certainly is. Iowa has had a lot of successful seasons over the past decade, but they've also had some clunkers. The next level for Iowa is maintaining that 8+ win success over the next 3 years. They had a sweet run from 02-04, but then had a rough 05, and fell on their face in 06 and 07. That next level for Iowa football is maintaining the success they've had over the past 3 years, and avoiding those head scratcher games where you try and figure out what the hell happened. Iowa football is not a national power, and anyone who thinks so is certifiably insane. However, they ARE a national brand, and are relevant on a national scale, even if they aren't a power. I think Iowa State basketball will get to a similar level under Hoiberg. At this point I'm probably just rambling so I will stop, but those are my thoughts on the matter.

I hope I'm not coming off as combative or arrogant with this post because that's not my intent at all I just wanted to share my thoughts on your post.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Yep... Go through the MWC, Big 12, CUSA, BE and WAC (ha ha) and find the top 16 teams (or even 1p if you allow Texas, BYU and ND independent waivers)...

Lets see.. Teams that are locks.. (12)

Texas
ND
BYU
OU
OSU
A&M
WV
TCU
Pitt
Mizzou
Louisville
Syracuse

Teams that would be competing for ISU for one of the at most 7 spots left

Uconn
Rutgers
TT
UCF
USF
UK
ECU
UH
Hawaii
Fresno
Boise St
Memphis
Rutgers

and there are several other teams I could add as well to the list..

If there are only 64 (67) spots and the current big 4 conferences would not be booting members, it is very possible to see ISU on the outside looking in. Where would ISU rank out of the left over schools?

I'd say 5th behind Rutgers, UCONN, USF and TT. Maybe 6th behind Kentucky too I guess. Also, how is TCU and WVU a lock? WVU isn't headed up. TCU is small. Neither hold a great deal of academic prowess.

 

[CTTB78]

Iowa fans don't need to worry about Texas. Getting your ***** kicked by Nebraska should be enough.

 

[laxtonto]

I'd say 5th behind Rutgers, UCONN, USF and TT. Maybe 6th behind Kentucky too I guess. Also, how is TCU and WVU a lock? WVU isn't headed up. TCU is small. Neither hold a great deal of academic prowess.

TCU is a lock because of location and previous patterns of success. Same with WV. The ACC or SEC would grab WV. TCU is slightly less of a lock and would hinge on where OU/OSU goes and if the the SEC goes west or east.

The problem for ISU is location. No real media draw and not longterm tradition of excellence is a death blow in the day and age of media driven football. How many SEC schools need to be in Texas for it to be worthwhile from a T V standpoint? 2 for both the Pac 12 and SEC? Would the ACC not be more interested in the CUSA and Big East schools than ISU? At best that leaves the Big 10 and unfortunately the New England area is most likely going to be up for grabs with the ACC and SEC staying in the south. Does the B1G go Mizzou, ISU, UK and KSU? Sounds like redundant markets that are diminishing in long term population. Would Mizzou, Syracuse and Rutgers carry enough of New England to exclude Pitt for ISU?

My guess would be the battle would be over Pitt and ISU for the last B1G spot, just due to the both being in current B1G states.

The whole thing is not a slam dunk guarantee that ISU keeps their BCS spot. But then again, the whole thing is unlikely just due to the fact that if the SEC starts super conferences they stand a legit chance of falling out of the top revenue generating spot.

 

[Tre4ISU]

I understand your thinking process in this post Yaman, but I disagree with a fair amount of it. Respectfully disagree of course.

IMO, you are doing quite a bit of assuming that isn't backed up at this point. You assume Iowa State will get to a point in the next decade where their football success will be very similar to Iowa's, but nothing really backs this up. Right now they are the Iowa basketball to ISU basketball, except Iowa's football talent has proven it on the field, whereas the ISU basketball talent has yet to prove anything.

Now, I want to interject myself here and say that I completely agree that ISU basketball will be putting far more talent on the court this season, and for the foreseeable future. Not only that, but I think they have a great shot at the NCAA tournament and Iowa clearly, painfully clearly, does not. I love Fred Hoiberg, and AM threatened by what he's doing in Ames, and I'm not ashamed to admit that. Some Hawk fans gave ISU fans a lot of crap for the transfer strategy, but really outside of a couple players he's recruited I would take the rest of them on Iowa in a second.

I think that ISU football fans see their talent the same way Iowa basketball fans see their talent. Iowa fans love Basabe, Cartwright, White, etc. but in the grand scheme of things they are average to slightly above average at this point. This is the same way I feel that ISU fans feel about ISU football. I know ISU fans are excited about the talent they have and some of the recruits coming in, but in the grand scheme their recruiting ranks are consistently near the bottom of the BCS teams. The excitement is there, but the recruiting ranks, NFL draft picks, and results on the field don't back up that excitement. Much like Iowa basketball.

You say that ISU hasn't been near Iowa the last 3 years in football, yet you also say that's changing, but I guess I don't see why you think that's changing. The games the last 2 years haven't been remotely competitive, and Iowa State has yet to have a "wow" game under Paul Rhoads. They won at Texas, which was contextually impressive, but overall it didn't gain them anything. I like Paul Rhoads, but at this point in time I just don't feel threatened by what he's doing in Ames. Much like ISU fans don't feel threatened by what Fran is doing in Iowa City.

At this point in time I think there's just as much to be excited about in terms of Iowa basketball as there is about ISU football. The recruits appear to be a little better than what their predecessors brought in, but that hasn't translated on the field/court. Both teams are clearly more fun to watch than they were under the previous coaches, but both have a LONG ways to go before they will be considered relevant to anyone outside of our own fanbases.

You say there isn't room to grow for Iowa football, but I think there certainly is. Iowa has had a lot of successful seasons over the past decade, but they've also had some clunkers. The next level for Iowa is maintaining that 8+ win success over the next 3 years. They had a sweet run from 02-04, but then had a rough 05, and fell on their face in 06 and 07. That next level for Iowa football is maintaining the success they've had over the past 3 years, and avoiding those head scratcher games where you try and figure out what the hell happened. Iowa football is not a national power, and anyone who thinks so is certifiably insane. However, they ARE a national brand, and are relevant on a national scale, even if they aren't a power. I think Iowa State basketball will get to a similar level under Hoiberg. At this point I'm probably just rambling so I will stop, but those are my thoughts on the matter.

I hope I'm not coming off as combative or arrogant with this post because that's not my intent at all I just wanted to share my thoughts on your post.

Now that, folks, is how you disagree with something. Nice work.

I disagree on the football front. Football takes a long time to change. It's very slow because of how much one thing impacts the program. One basketball player can completely turn things around. Football needs 10 guys for 4 years. I don't think we have seen what improvement has been in recruiting. Let's look at award watch lists. When is the last time ISU has had this many guys mentioned? I know that doesn't mean much at this point but it's still something in a positive direction. We will just have to agree to disagree though. I believe we both have valid points.

 

[Al_4_State]

TCU is a lock because of location and previous patterns of success. Same with WV. The ACC or SEC would grab WV. TCU is slightly less of a lock and would hinge on where OU/OSU goes and if the the SEC goes west or east.

The problem for ISU is location. No real media draw and not longterm tradition of excellence is a death blow in the day and age of media driven football. How many SEC schools need to be in Texas for it to be worthwhile from a T V standpoint? 2 for both the Pac 12 and SEC? Would the ACC not be more interested in the CUSA and Big East schools than ISU? At best that leaves the Big 10 and unfortunately the New England area is most likely going to be up for grabs with the ACC and SEC staying in the south. Does the B1G go Mizzou, ISU, UK and KSU? Sounds like redundant markets that are diminishing in long term population. Would Mizzou, Syracuse and Rutgers carry enough of New England to exclude Pitt for ISU?

My guess would be the battle would be over Pitt and ISU for the last B1G spot, just due to the both being in current B1G states.

The whole thing is not a slam dunk guarantee that ISU keeps their BCS spot. But then again, the whole thing is unlikely just due to the fact that if the SEC starts super conferences they stand a legit chance of falling out of the top revenue generating spot.

ISU (like KU) would provide the ACC with opportunities into new markets. Who adds more TVs to ACC's market share? ISU or ECU, UCF, USF, etc? ISU, clearly.

I think USF is in a rough spot because neither the ACC or SEC need them to get into the Florida market.

 

[tm3308]

I sympathize with you if you were named Hawkeye because your Dad was a die hard fan. Maybe you were named after Hawkeye in Mash show. Can you imagine being named Cyclone?

Lol, I missed this post earlier. I'm not named "Hawkeye". I'm named after Tork Hook (He's the one who made the INT to seal the game against ISU in '88), who is a friend of the family (Our dads worked in the same office for years). My dad is a die-hard fan, but that's not why I have the name that I do.

 

[ribsnwhiskey]

I understand your thinking process in this post Yaman, but I disagree with a fair amount of it. Respectfully disagree of course.

IMO, you are doing quite a bit of assuming that isn't backed up at this point. You assume Iowa State will get to a point in the next decade where their football success will be very similar to Iowa's, but nothing really backs this up. Right now they are the Iowa basketball to ISU basketball, except Iowa's football talent has proven it on the field, whereas the ISU basketball talent has yet to prove anything.

Now, I want to interject myself here and say that I completely agree that ISU basketball will be putting far more talent on the court this season, and for the foreseeable future. Not only that, but I think they have a great shot at the NCAA tournament and Iowa clearly, painfully clearly, does not. I love Fred Hoiberg, and AM threatened by what he's doing in Ames, and I'm not ashamed to admit that. Some Hawk fans gave ISU fans a lot of crap for the transfer strategy, but really outside of a couple players he's recruited I would take the rest of them on Iowa in a second.

I think that ISU football fans see their talent the same way Iowa basketball fans see their talent. Iowa fans love Basabe, Cartwright, White, etc. but in the grand scheme of things they are average to slightly above average at this point. This is the same way I feel that ISU fans feel about ISU football. I know ISU fans are excited about the talent they have and some of the recruits coming in, but in the grand scheme their recruiting ranks are consistently near the bottom of the BCS teams. The excitement is there, but the recruiting ranks, NFL draft picks, and results on the field don't back up that excitement. Much like Iowa basketball.

You say that ISU hasn't been near Iowa the last 3 years in football, yet you also say that's changing, but I guess I don't see why you think that's changing. The games the last 2 years haven't been remotely competitive, and Iowa State has yet to have a "wow" game under Paul Rhoads. They won at Texas, which was contextually impressive, but overall it didn't gain them anything. I like Paul Rhoads, but at this point in time I just don't feel threatened by what he's doing in Ames. Much like ISU fans don't feel threatened by what Fran is doing in Iowa City.

At this point in time I think there's just as much to be excited about in terms of Iowa basketball as there is about ISU football. The recruits appear to be a little better than what their predecessors brought in, but that hasn't translated on the field/court. Both teams are clearly more fun to watch than they were under the previous coaches, but both have a LONG ways to go before they will be considered relevant to anyone outside of our own fanbases.

You say there isn't room to grow for Iowa football, but I think there certainly is. Iowa has had a lot of successful seasons over the past decade, but they've also had some clunkers. The next level for Iowa is maintaining that 8+ win success over the next 3 years. They had a sweet run from 02-04, but then had a rough 05, and fell on their face in 06 and 07. That next level for Iowa football is maintaining the success they've had over the past 3 years, and avoiding those head scratcher games where you try and figure out what the hell happened. Iowa football is not a national power, and anyone who thinks so is certifiably insane. However, they ARE a national brand, and are relevant on a national scale, even if they aren't a power. I think Iowa State basketball will get to a similar level under Hoiberg. At this point I'm probably just rambling so I will stop, but those are my thoughts on the matter.

I hope I'm not coming off as combative or arrogant with this post because that's not my intent at all I just wanted to share my thoughts on your post.

You are coming off as arrogant. I despise people who claim to be fans of all iowa teams, when in reality you are just a condescending squawk.

Let's just compare ISU and Iowa football from last season. You think Iowa's talent is so much better than ISU's. So why the 7-5 season? ISU went 5-7 with 'average' talent. And a MUCH tougher schedule. I'd love to play the big10 schedule every year and see how Iowa with that massive stockpile of talent fares in the Big 12.

As for basketball, iowa fan having as much confidence as he does in what mad fran has done so far is fun to watch from my perspective. The talent levels are not even as close as most iowa fans think compared to ISU. And you will see that very soon.

I hope I am coming off as arrogant.

 

[aauummm]

I think the thread title should be changed to "Iowa fan thinks Texas needs to go."

or.."Iowa troll thinks Texas needs to go."