The K-State Game: Probably worse off for the W

[Seth]

So this has been brewing in my head for the past month and a half...pretty much since it happened, but I can't help but feel like when we won the K-State game, we really lost. Hear me out on this...

We go down to Manhattan having won only 1 of the previous 9 games, en route to our 4th straight losing season, and on pace for a meager 3 conference W's after similar ****-poor showings the past 3 years. The fans are ********, the program is stagnant, there are clearly issues with the program, and through it all, G-Mac hasn't gotten his "signature win." In my mind, I'm thinking, "Thank God, at least after we end this season on our awful losing streak, JP's hand will be forced." Then the unthinkable happens, K-State falls asleep and somehow we pull out the W in OT. 2 days later, JP comes out with a press conference where he gives G-Mac a vote of confidence.

Fast forward a month and a half, and we've seen one (maybe 2?) assistant coaches jump ship, 1 player jump to the pros, another 2 (maybe 3? 4?) players transfer. And all the while, our recruiting keeps looking bleaker and bleaker. Add up another player leaving mid-season for the Euro-leagues, and the preceding 3 years of similar transfers/kicked off the team/quit altogether, and there's only one inescapable conclusion: Greg McDermott just doesn't work well at ISU. He just isn't a good fit.

If we'd lost that game, I feel like the fan apathy/anger would have finally reached a critical mass. Instead, we pull out the ******* W and lo and behold, we end up losing in the long run. Feels like a "win the battle, lose the war" scenario. Anyone else agree?

 

[LindenCy]

I can see what you mean, but I really like that we had a highlight to the season and that Brackins has something positive to take away from the year.

 

[DrewCo]

I think Greg is here regardless of what happened in Manhattan.

 

[isuno1fan]

Was a great, great win and wouldn't trade it for anything.

 

[Havs]

I think Jamie is still unable to admit mistakes regardless of what happened in Manhattan.

Fixed!

 

[azn4cy]

That's a fair statement. I had thought up until that game that every loss would make it easier to fire McDermott at the end of the season. When the KSU game happened though, my completely unfounded optimism leaked through a little bit, and I figured maybe this would be something that Iowa State could rally around.. and then the wave of news hit... the Hamilton defection, Robinson, etc.

While I don't want to ever say I want ISU to lose, you're probably right in that it would have helped our current situation.

 

[Rolling Clones]

You, sir, are 100% correct!

 

[BigBake]

I don't feel that W affected JP's decision or swayed any fans one way or another.

I was a huge Mac supporter but after the season was done...and now the ensuing chaos that has followed I just can't support him anymore. Unfortunately I feel we've missed the window to can him and hire a good replacement. There isn't anyone available.

 

[BigBake]

And more to the point...if anything that KSU cemented Mac as a failure in my mind. It only proved that this team had talent and was capable of SOOOOOOOO much more than what we got. Mac failed to get them to play to their potential which to me is the worst sin a coach can make.

 

[Seth]

Not going to lie, I loved that we won the game. And I love that Brackins, et al. got to knock off the #5 team in the country.

But now it feels like it was just a stop-gap W, a finger in a dike that's now springing more leaks. While it's true that correlation does not equal causation, the timing of the JP press conference made me think that he was looking for a reason to come down on G-Mac's side, and the W gave him his chance. Now, with everything else that has transpired in the past 1.5 months, I don't think there's any way JP will traverse the very line in the sand that he himself drew. Whether it's pride, arrogance, loyalty, stubbornness, or something else altogether, I just don't think JP will do it, even if it might be the best option out there. And in my opinion, every day with G-Mac at the helm is setting us back that much more.

 

[Tre4ISU]

So you think that him winning one game against a great team let him keep his job? I doubt it. I get a little aggravated when someone suggests that a win, especially that win was bad for us.

 

[gocubs2118]

So you think that him winning one game against a great team let him keep his job? I doubt it. I get a little aggravated when someone suggests that a win, especially that win was bad for us.

Yep. JP wasn't doing his job if he was letting one win determine if he was going to fire or keep Mac.

 

[cyatheart]

I think if ISU would have lost badly it wouldn't have mattered. JP would have kept Greg regardless. Season was already lost at that point, beating K-State was meaningless in the grand scheme of things for the year, although I really enjoyed watching it.

 

[Rods79]

Mark me down as feeling the game was meaningless, and did not serve as the hinge to keeping McDermott. Initially I agreed with you but after the months passed I realized that there wasn't that much weight on that game.

 

[Royalclone]

Unfortunately, the only thing that will change basketball at ISU is a full lack of support. Unless McDermott can pull a miracle with a bunch of ragamuffins you might as well be prepared for 3-4 years of bottom-of-the barrel basketball. I, for one, am going to turn my interests to the successful sports at ISU (namely football, wrestling, WBB, and VB). I'll keep tabs with BB, lookingn for hope, but am not jumping back on board until I see solid proof that there is a change in fortunes (Mac of no Mac).

People will need to quit buying season tickets and not show up at games. As faithful as ISU fans are, this will be hard to do.

This reminds me of the 70's after Maury John died. You might even see one freak season where the team rises up to mid-level in the conference, maybe even make the NIT. But don't count on it. So look for me on the other Cyclone Fanatic Boards. Since I'm in KC, I don't get up to many games anyway, but I'll look for WBB/wrestling weekends to come up when I do.

 

[cycloneworld]

Are many of you to the point where you are openly rooting for Iowa State to lose??? That's sad.

I'm very happy we won at K-State...especially for the players, they deserved it. That win didn't and won't make or break McDermott.

 

[Seth]

So you think that him winning one game against a great team let him keep his job? I doubt it. I get a little aggravated when someone suggests that a win, especially that win was bad for us.

Indirectly, yes, that's the practical effect, but you've grossly over-simplified what I'm saying. I think it gave Pollard the opportunity he was looking for. I'm not saying that this one game caused Pollard to decide to keep G-Mac. Rather, I'm saying he was looking for an opportunity to publicly make the decision he had already made in his mind. The W gave him the window he needed to do just that.

Conversely, had we lost that game, I don't think that same press conference happens, at least not at that time. And then with the all of the crap that has happened in the past 1.5 months, I think public resentment of G-Mac would be at an all-time high. Hell, even with the W, I think it is. My point is, had we lost that game, then perhaps the press conference doesn't happen. If the press conference doesn't happen, JP isn't on record as supporting G-Mac, and essentially he would be free to to fire Greg now. Having come out in support of G-Mac, I don't think JP would ever reverse course. He's just too stubborn.

You don't think Pollard might have a little "buyer's remorse" for his public vote of confidence? The only way I think that's possible is if he knew all of the transfers/defections were going to happen a month and a half ago. And if that's the case, then JP needs to seriously re-evaluate how he's doing his job.

 

[cycloneML]

So this has been brewing in my head for the past month and a half...pretty much since it happened, but I can't help but feel like when we won the K-State game, we really lost. Hear me out on this...

We go down to Manhattan having won only 1 of the previous 9 games, en route to our 4th straight losing season, and on pace for a meager 3 conference W's after similar ****-poor showings the past 3 years. The fans are ********, the program is stagnant, there are clearly issues with the program, and through it all, G-Mac hasn't gotten his "signature win." In my mind, I'm thinking, "Thank God, at least after we end this season on our awful losing streak, JP's hand will be forced." Then the unthinkable happens, K-State falls asleep and somehow we pull out the W in OT. 2 days later, JP comes out with a press conference where he gives G-Mac a vote of confidence.

Fast forward a month and a half, and we've seen one (maybe 2?) assistant coaches jump ship, 1 player jump to the pros, another 2 (maybe 3? 4?) players transfer. And all the while, our recruiting keeps looking bleaker and bleaker. Add up another player leaving mid-season for the Euro-leagues, and the preceding 3 years of similar transfers/kicked off the team/quit altogether, and there's only one inescapable conclusion: Greg McDermott just doesn't work well at ISU. He just isn't a good fit.

If we'd lost that game, I feel like the fan apathy/anger would have finally reached a critical mass. Instead, we pull out the ******* W and lo and behold, we end up losing in the long run. Feels like a "win the battle, lose the war" scenario. Anyone else agree?

best thread of the week.

 

[BKLYNCyclone]

I'm glad the guys got that win and it sure felt good watching it on TV. At some point you have to take what you can get, and I'm happy that we managed a win.

 

[CycloneErik]

I think the press conference was scheduled for that Monday days before the KSU game. I doubt the KSU game had any impact on the decision at all.