Thomas should not have been starting over Morris

[nate42smith]

Scoring? Yes, we have already established he was the best shooter. If it was only about taking, and making, shots, sure. Of, course it isn't. Steals? You have to be kidding. That is not a measure of good defense.
He was not better than Babb, and he could not play a lead guard like KL or the wing like Will. Great shooter off the bench though.

You have your opinion...many may disagree. Thomas starting this year is comparable to Mcgee's situation last year from this regard....many people felt Tyrus was one of the best players on that team. He wasn't coming off the bench because he was the 6th best player. Rather, he came off the bench because Hoiberg felt it most effective within the dynamic of the game. Similarly it doesn't matter if man 6 or 7 or 8 in the rotation is playing better than Matt Thomas. Fred has shown in the past that he likes that dynamic coming off the bench.

You asserted as fact (which is actually just an opinion) that Mcgee came off the bench because he was not the all around caliber player of KL, Babb or WC. Many think Mcgee was better, which correlates with Thomas continuing to start despite superior play by Naz and Monte.

 

[IdahoCyclone]

Things are much more fluid when Monte is out there. Ever notice the slow starts and then Monte comes in and things pick up. I get frustrated with Thomas doesn't put up open 3 looks before the defense closes on him. Catch and shoot dude. He gets a little lost on defense at times also. Matt will be a great player for us some day. Right now he is playing like a tentative freshman and Monte is playing a step above.

This is so simple. Matt should be starting but Monte should be getting more minutes. Need a three point threat. Monte not a great shooter. Done, solved, no more threads.

 

[Thomasrickj]

This is so simple. Matt should be starting but Monte should be getting more minutes. Need a three point threat. Monte not a great shooter. Done, solved, no more threads.

Monte was stroking it against Baylor. The guy can shoot. Thomas may be a great shooter, but he has yet to prove it.

For those of you saying it's bad to rip on your own player (Thomas) because it's going to hurt his confidence even more, are dumb. If he can't handle his own fanbase ripping on him, then he's not meant to play college basketball. You're telling me you'd rather see us sit here and say "it's okay" when he keeps making mistakes? Give me a break! Thomas is 15 games into the season and there is no reason he should still be crapping himself when he gets the ball. His defense is a liability and he had a stupid turnover on a fast break yesterday because he was clearly scared, yet the defender wasn't within three feet of him (that's a 4 point swing right there). I hope the guy does well, but he's honestly a HUGE reason we get off to such slow starts because he's not a Big 12 player right now. Notice how as soon as he's subbed out that we start picking up the pace? The reason Fred has started him is because he likes using sharpshooters since that's the kind of style he plays. He's eventually going to give up on him if he continues to struggle the way he has been.

Cyclone fans should be incredibly disappointed by him and losing patience. Halfway into the season he's shown zero signs of improvement. He needs to man up and play. He's not in small town Wisconsin anymore where he plays against a bunch of slower, less athletic guys.

 

[Psiclone]

To be fair, people have been ripping on Thomas throughout the first 14 wins as well. Apparently, Fred has no idea what the best starting lineup is.

Fred clearly has no idea how to coach. If only he would read CF more often, then we would have one of the best records in the country and be ranked be ranked. If he continues to coach as he has been, we'll never get any teams into the tournament.

 

[Die4Cy]

Fred has adjusted players' minutes accordingly,so I don't really have a problem with it. But he might consider letting MT come off the bench at some point to see if handling the situation differently leads to a different result.

 

[MartyFine]

Let me Mayor coach

 

[deanvogs]

Monte was stroking it against Baylor. The guy can shoot. Thomas may be a great shooter, but he has yet to prove it.

For those of you saying it's bad to rip on your own player (Thomas) because it's going to hurt his confidence even more, are dumb. If he can't handle his own fanbase ripping on him, then he's not meant to play college basketball. You're telling me you'd rather see us sit here and say "it's okay" when he keeps making mistakes? Give me a break! Thomas is 15 games into the season and there is no reason he should still be crapping himself when he gets the ball. His defense is a liability and he had a stupid turnover on a fast break yesterday because he was clearly scared, yet the defender wasn't within three feet of him (that's a 4 point swing right there). I hope the guy does well, but he's honestly a HUGE reason we get off to such slow starts because he's not a Big 12 player right now. Notice how as soon as he's subbed out that we start picking up the pace? The reason Fred has started him is because he likes using sharpshooters since that's the kind of style he plays. He's eventually going to give up on him if he continues to struggle the way he has been.

Cyclone fans should be incredibly disappointed by him and losing patience. Halfway into the season he's shown zero signs of improvement. He needs to man up and play. He's not in small town Wisconsin anymore where he plays against a bunch of slower, less athletic guys.

I love the fans that completely throw players under the bus as FR. Please show me a list of BCS conference D1 FR shooting guards that are playing up to "your standards".

 

[Dingus]

I don't particularly care who starts, and am perfectly happy having Hoiberg call it however he sees best.

However, if any of you think Hoiberg isn't asking himself this same question, at some level, you are deluding yourselves. He's too good a coach not to question his gameplans/rotations at all points.

 

[Dingus]

Monte was stroking it against Baylor. The guy can shoot. Thomas may be a great shooter, but he has yet to prove it.

For those of you saying it's bad to rip on your own player (Thomas) because it's going to hurt his confidence even more, are dumb. If he can't handle his own fanbase ripping on him, then he's not meant to play college basketball. You're telling me you'd rather see us sit here and say "it's okay" when he keeps making mistakes? Give me a break! Thomas is 15 games into the season and there is no reason he should still be crapping himself when he gets the ball. His defense is a liability and he had a stupid turnover on a fast break yesterday because he was clearly scared, yet the defender wasn't within three feet of him (that's a 4 point swing right there). I hope the guy does well, but he's honestly a HUGE reason we get off to such slow starts because he's not a Big 12 player right now. Notice how as soon as he's subbed out that we start picking up the pace? The reason Fred has started him is because he likes using sharpshooters since that's the kind of style he plays. He's eventually going to give up on him if he continues to struggle the way he has been.

Cyclone fans should be incredibly disappointed by him and losing patience. Halfway into the season he's shown zero signs of improvement. He needs to man up and play. He's not in small town Wisconsin anymore where he plays against a bunch of slower, less athletic guys.

No he won't, and this is overly harsh. Thomas may not be playing like the best SG we have, but I'm sure he's starting because Hoiberg thinks that he is and will be and that we will be the best team if he gets there. Only question is how long you wait. We've had that luxury until now cause we've been winning games.

I bet he has a couple good games and this question simmers down.

 

[Yellow Snow]

He passes up too many open looks. Before he receives the pass, he should KNOW he's going to shoot it.

Maybe Hoiberg should just tell him that he expects Thomas to shoot at least 7 times per game, make or miss. Sometimes i think it would be better for him to be more aggressive.

All i know is that on that last possession when Kane dribbled out front and Monte jacked up the three with 2 seconds left, I'd rather have had Thomas take that shot, confidence or no confidence. He is a better shooter than he thinks he is right now. The only way to fix that is for him to SHOOT THE BALL!. Maybe if coach told him he expected a certain number of shots out of him it would make the decision to shoot easier... it wouldn't be his decision.

 

[State43]

I'm not sure who you think is ripping Thomas. Pointing out that other players are outperforming MT is not the same thing as ripping on MT. Quit planting strawmen.

This exactly.
People keep saying we are ripping on him when we simply feel Morris and Naz are more prepared for B12 play and it's obvious by the fact Thomas's minutes have gone down.
People keep pointing out his 0 turnovers. Hard to turn the ball over when you don't take any chances and do virtually nothing on offense.
As many have said, he hasn't lost a game for ISU but is that the standard we hold for a starter? If Kane can't play Monday, who do you think steps up and produces for this team? Naz, Monte, or Thomas ?

 

[jkclone]

He passes up too many open looks. Before he receives the pass, he should KNOW he's going to shoot it.

Maybe Hoiberg should just tell him that he expects Thomas to shoot at least 7 times per game, make or miss. Sometimes i think it would be better for him to be more aggressive.

All i know is that on that last possession when Kane dribbled out front and Monte jacked up the three with 2 seconds left, I'd rather have had Thomas take that shot, confidence or no confidence. He is a better shooter than he thinks he is right now. The only way to fix that is for him to SHOOT THE BALL!. Maybe if coach told him he expected a certain number of shots out of him it would make the decision to shoot easier... it wouldn't be his decision.

This might be a good choice. I think starting lineup tomorrow is:

Morris
Thomas
Hogue
Ejim
Niang

Make sure that Thomas takes some shots by giving him a quota. If he doesn't then we go to this lineup:

Kane
Long
Hogue
Ejim
Niang

The thing to remember here is that most people are fine if you miss some shots as long as you take some too. You can't make it if you don't take it.

 

[Thomasrickj]

This exactly.
People keep saying we are ripping on him when we simply feel Morris and Naz are more prepared for B12 play and it's obvious by the fact Thomas's minutes have gone down.
People keep pointing out his 0 turnovers. Hard to turn the ball over when you don't take any chances and do virtually nothing on offense.
As many have said, he hasn't lost a game for ISU but is that the standard we hold for a starter? If Kane can't play Monday, who do you think steps up and produces for this team? Naz, Monte, or Thomas ?

He had a horrible turnover yesterday on the fast break, so people can't make the zero turnovers argument anymore.

 

[State43]

I also noticed MT starts a bit more aggressive offensively but if he misses a couple early shots he becomes very hesitant and gun shy. Almost as if he shuts down. I like many here am very comfortable with him shooting the ball make or miss. I have also seen him take guys off the dribble and shoot floaters yet he has stopped trying that altogether. He just needs time. In the meantime, lessen his minutes and give Naz and MM more. After all, they Are all you g and need the experience as well.
In the end, stop making Thomas threads. Plenty of them already.

 

[Wesley]

Re: I dont think it matters

i dont think it matters who starts- as long as we get quality minutes out of Morris or Long. Hoiberg can play the hot hand.

With Kanes injury CFH hand might be forced even if Kane can play. He might be healthy enough to start, but maybe not healthy enough to be the primary ball handler and on ball defender against KU's PG.

The reality is we didn't lose this game because of Thomas' play, but our giving OU open 3's and offensive rebounds. My bigger concern going forward (other than Kane's injury), is that neither Edozie or Gibson have shown Fred they can earn meaningful Big 12 minutes. I think a big body is needed when Niang goes out.

That last comment was obvious as Georges had to be brought back into the game to bump butts with Spangler.

 

[mjhavlo76]

Matt Thomas I think will be a good player. It's Coach Hoiberg's decision to start him over Monte Morris. I really think dissecting/analyzing this is really counter-productive. Both players are getting quality minutes on the floor so who cares!

 

[Wesley]

Matt Thomas I think will be a good player. It's Coach Hoiberg's decision to start him over Monte Morris. I really think dissecting/analyzing this is really counter-productive. Both players are getting quality minutes on the floor so who cares!

That position needs to score from the outside. Who cares who is in it if they can hiot threes. otherwise the offense crumplkes up to driving the lane for tweo point shots. If DeAndre shot 40 per cent from three, it might be different. We need three threes a game from that fifth position to lossen up the rest of the floor.

 

[SCISUFAN]

I don't really care if Matt starts or not, although I do think Fred likes his rotation at this point. I am amazed that this thread is 11 pages about something or somebody who had very little to do with the loss yesterday.

As far as Matt goes, I would just say go watch one Hoiberg practice and you will see why he is starting. Fred is obsessive-compulsive about spacing. Someone in practice is just a foot or two out of place and he catches it. No matter how poorly MT has shot, he is still pulling one guy out to the 3 point line every time. That opens up the lane for drives and even Niang's ability to operate from the high and low post. He also does not turn the ball over.

I am more concerned about getting embarrassed on the boards and frankly Kane's 13 turnovers the last 2 games. That cannot continue for us to beat good teams. 13 turnovers is the equivalent of 26 points we did not score and possibly 26 points the other team does score. That is a huge differential and much more of a concern then whether MT starts or not.

 

[Wesley]

I don't really care if Matt starts or not, although I do think Fred likes his rotation at this point. I am amazed that this thread is 11 pages about something or somebody who had very little to do with the loss yesterday.

As far as Matt goes, I would just say go watch one Hoiberg practice and you will see why he is starting. Fred is obsessive-compulsive about spacing. Someone in practice is just a foot or two out of place and he catches it. No matter how poorly MT has shot, he is still pulling one guy out to the 3 point line every time. That opens up the lane for drives and even Niang's ability to operate from the high and low post. He also does not turn the ball over.

I am more concerned about getting embarrassed on the boards and frankly Kane's 13 turnovers the last 2 games. That cannot continue for us to beat good teams. 13 turnovers is the equivalent of 26 points we did not score and possibly 26 points the other team does score. That is a huge differential and much more of a concern then whether MT starts or not.

Again Monte is bringing the ball up when he is in. Matt needs to be able to do this work also if he wants to play more. Kane fell down when that little guy bugged him at the time line. You could see the pest was getting to Kane.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

Matt has a bigger body and can guard against different types of players that Morris and Long cannot. He has a better shot, but sure he needs to pull the trigger a little faster. His defense is good, It blows my mind when people say his defense isn't good. He can dribble drive. It's important to not have a drop off in play with our bench. He stays the starter in my book.