Tolfbfan . . .

[CyValley]

got a question, if you don't mind. You're a coach, and your son was an F back, wasn't he, at Toledo?

The Colorado h.s. tight end who it appears ISU would really like to have (visited last weekend, for the second time) says the staff is recruiting him as an F back. Do the TE and F positions require different attributes, or are these players interchangeable just depending where they line up?

Alec Pell, the Colorado kid, says the staff wants him to block, run routes, run the ball at times. Seems like our young guys - so. Chase Allen (6-7, 245), so. Dylan Soehner (6-7, 272), fr. Charlie Kolar (6-6, 255) - are capable of that, too.

Thanks.

 

[NetflixAndClone]

If I could take a guess. it’s about where they will line up. I’m guessing CMC wants TEs to line up on the line. Where they can block and catch. CMC wants F position to be in the back field where they have an opportunity to run besides just catching and blocking.

 

[1100011CS]

If I could take a guess. it’s about where they will line up. I’m guessing CMC wants TEs to line up on the line. Where they can block and catch. CMC wants F position to be in the back field where they have an opportunity to run besides just catching and blocking.

Nice job deciphering that post. I had no idea what the question was. Something about my son and being from Toledo.

 

[norcalcy]

Man, don't scare me with a thread title like that. I thought Tolfbfan was transferring or something.

 

[tolfbfan]

Relax my new posting friends, not going anywhere. To the question. Ideally,a HB and TE should be interchangeable and can line up anywhere. Unluckily,my son had my wifes hands and was typically out there only to block. He was very good at blocking with his hands and cutting. Either way, at about 275 his senior year he made peoples life miserable. Did I mention he had block hands???LOL. In summary, the best HB would be a great blocker who can also catch. This would be a nightmare for the defense. Hope I answered well enough.

PS, I also dont think the HB will get many carries. Why? Give it to a slower bigger guy or someone who could break it for 90 yards??? Yea, I know it's situational.

 

[CyValley]

Tolfbfan, glad to see you had no problem understanding my question. And, thanks for the explanation!

 

[tolfbfan]

Tolfbfan, glad to see you had no problem understanding my question. And, thanks for the explanation!

What question?????? You are welcome!

 

[tolfbfan]

Now that I have thought about it longer, When we have two or three big, strong, somewhat fast, good catching TE types available, you may see both in there, or maybe even three in certain situations. It could look like double tights, HB, Tailback, and QB. Way out by his little old lonesome would be out best receiver receiving one on one coverage. Lets see Safeties up, LBs crowding the line, oops, post, fade, or back shoulder. Keep safeties back, the beef grinds out big chunks of real estate over a 6-8 minute time. This happens, then all of a sudden one of the TE's are wide ass open for a big gain or TD pass. OR, the defense brings in their big package because we are kicking their ass and all of a sudden, we have a 6'5" 255 lb TE split out against a 5'10" 190 lb corner on him. Then, we split out the WR, a TE, and the RB. Trips against a big package defense. Another TE or HB split out on other side. Depending on defensive alignment, a flood or screen to trips side or a fade, post or back shoulder to single side. Defense plays back a QB iso with HB leading. Yea! SO MANY OPTIONS, SO MUCH FUN!

NOW, that is midwest football, glad you west coast guys have finally seen the light!

 

[CyValley]

Exciting scenarios! Wish I had thought to ask a question ;-)

 

[dualthreat]

I've seen Seonbuchner play the HB role. At least, he's lined up at sniffer and they'll pull him on counters, powers, and maybe even some traps. That guy can hit and plays with tremendous pad level. Doesn't get nearly enough credit for his role in our run game. To me, he looks like more of a true full back (which is similar in design to the HB, just lined up slightly different).
Allen, Soehner, Kolar, Seonbuchner of the four, he's impressed me the most.

 

[Ficklone02]

Now that I have thought about it longer, When we have two or three big, strong, somewhat fast, good catching TE types available, you may see both in there, or maybe even three in certain situations. It could look like double tights, HB, Tailback, and QB. Way out by his little old lonesome would be out best receiver receiving one on one coverage. Lets see Safeties up, LBs crowding the line, oops, post, fade, or back shoulder. Keep safeties back, the beef grinds out big chunks of real estate over a 6-8 minute time. This happens, then all of a sudden one of the TE's are wide ass open for a big gain or TD pass. OR, the defense brings in their big package because we are kicking their ass and all of a sudden, we have a 6'5" 255 lb TE split out against a 5'10" 190 lb corner on him. Then, we split out the WR, a TE, and the RB. Trips against a big package defense. Another TE or HB split out on other side. Depending on defensive alignment, a flood or screen to trips side or a fade, post or back shoulder to single side. Defense plays back a QB iso with HB leading. Yea! SO MANY OPTIONS, SO MUCH FUN!

NOW, that is midwest football, glad you west coast guys have finally seen the light!

Sounds like Harbaugh Ball to me.

 

[tolfbfan]

Sounds like Harbaugh Ball to me.

Just the opposite of normal Big 12 offense[aka west coat ball]. A way to slow down those hyper speed offenses. Hurt their rhythm. A very complicated form of KEEP AWAY!

 

[VeloClone]

Just the opposite of normal Big 12 offense[aka west coat ball]. A way to slow down those hyper speed offenses. Hurt their rhythm. A very complicated form of KEEP AWAY!

It hasn't always been that way. Nebraska and Oklahoma were the class* of the big 8 and early
Big 12 playing power football.

*Please do not read too much into my use of the word "class" here.

 

[usedcarguy]

Just the opposite of normal Big 12 offense[aka west coat ball]. A way to slow down those hyper speed offenses. Hurt their rhythm. A very complicated form of KEEP AWAY!

This was Rhoads' strategy as well. Didn't work for him, but there were plenty of reasons other than the concept. LOL

 

[CycloneVet]

I've seen Seonbuchner play the HB role. At least, he's lined up at sniffer and they'll pull him on counters, powers, and maybe even some traps. That guy can hit and plays with tremendous pad level. Doesn't get nearly enough credit for his role in our run game. To me, he looks like more of a true full back (which is similar in design to the HB, just lined up slightly different).
Allen, Soehner, Kolar, Seonbuchner of the four, he's impressed me the most.

Seonbuchner seems to enjoy flattening people. Like really takes pride in it. I like that

 

[Cycsk]

tolfbfan, hoping to see you (and your son) for the April 14th spring game. Seriously, it would be a great time for you guys to get some more time with the coaches than you could during the season. And we will have a tailgate for you to join.

 

[harimad]

PS, I also dont think the HB will get many carries. Why? Give it to a slower bigger guy or someone who could break it for 90 yards??? Yea, I know it's situational.

Some OCs use equilibrium to guide their playcalling. Yes, all else being equal the short-term output for giving the handoff to the slower bigger guy has less reward than pitching it to the shifty guy that breaks ankles.

For my hypothetical: Against a balanced defense, the speedy guy is expected to gain 5 ypc, the HB only 2.5 ypc.

But what if the defense knows this, and sets up their defense so that it is most effective against your speedy guy? It all comes down to expected outcomes.

Against a defense keyed on the speedy guy, his ypc drops to 3 ypc, which is still more than the HB in a normal situation. BUT, because of the new defensive setup which is weaker in the middle, now the HB's expected output is 3.5 ypc. Even though your running back is the better player, you end up handing the ball to the slow guy more often.

Classic Nash equilibrium.

 

[CYCLNST8]

Rhoads and Herman coveted a "jet" tempo, but it never worked here. Yeah, they'd skip the huddle and hurry to the line of scrimmage only to clap once then turn to the sideline waiting for the go-ahead signal or an audible. Sometimes it would slow the rhythm down to the point of delay-of-game penalties, and I would want to rip my hair out.

I like the versatility where the preferred method is power run, but we'll "take what the defense gives us." Apparently verses Texas last year it was incomplete passes to the sideline, because it certainly wasn't David Montgomery.

 

[tolfbfan]

Some OCs use equilibrium to guide their playcalling. Yes, all else being equal the short-term output for giving the handoff to the slower bigger guy has less reward than pitching it to the shifty guy that breaks ankles.

For my hypothetical: Against a balanced defense, the speedy guy is expected to gain 5 ypc, the HB only 2.5 ypc.

But what if the defense knows this, and sets up their defense so that it is most effective against your speedy guy? It all comes down to expected outcomes.

Against a defense keyed on the speedy guy, his ypc drops to 3 ypc, which is still more than the HB in a normal situation. BUT, because of the new defensive setup which is weaker in the middle, now the HB's expected output is 3.5 ypc. Even though your running back is the better player, you end up handing the ball to the slow guy more often.

Classic Nash equilibrium.

 

[tolfbfan]

tolfbfan, hoping to see you (and your son) for the April 14th spring game. Seriously, it would be a great time for you guys to get some more time with the coaches than you could during the season. And we will have a tailgate for you to join.

I'm trying, but my son...........