Tom Herman's Offense Implementation at OSU

00clone

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Oh no people discussing an article better call them butthurt.

I only read the first few paragraphs, but unless there's something in the later part, to take that article and in any way tie it to Herman's performance...yah, I'ma go with butthurt.

Meyer is saying the players aren't going hard enough, playing too hesitantly, that has nothing to do with Herman's offensive scheme. Meyer also says he saw it everywhere he went.

Had the article said something like "I think our offensive scheme needs work" or "we're not using the talent we have to it's fullest potential" or "our system might be too much to do with the pieces we have in place" (which I think could be a valid criticism of Herman's offense when he was here) it would be totally valid to draw the conclusion that Herman is the problem.

As it stands, I see it as way off base, and looking for a reason...any reason to dance the happy dance at the possibility that either Herman or tOSU will be a flop. That's my definition of butthurt.

But now I'm doing the arguing back that I just criticized...so I now stop...
 

aauummm

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I'm confused. That article doesn't say anything about Herman, and is mostly describing Meyer being upset with his players not picking up the offense fast enough, something he goes on to say was also a problem at all of his previous stops as head coach. What's the takeaway from that?
I noticed that also, no mention of Herman at all. Also, Meyer's expectations are miles above what other team's expectations are. His team is basically a semi-pro team that consists of the top talent in the nation.
 

Mr Janny

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Bookie
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Herman wasn't even brought up in the article, which shows how much say he has in the offense

agreed. Herman may be the OC in name, but everyone knows it's Urban's show. It's his scheme. He's the offensive guru. I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised that TH's name isn't mentioned.
 

nhclone

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Let's see...article mentions the head coach, the offensive line coach, the defensive line coach, and the defensive coordinator. Seems pretty obvious who is missing.

Have fun playing with your toy.

You're right, the article leaves out every position coach except for the 2 lines. I assume the WR, RB, and TE are the main reason the offense is struggling.

Herman has no more of a say in the offense than his co-offensive coordinator (the o-line coach) whom they took quotes from. Why do they need 2 quotes from the same perspective? The article is all about Meyer and his offense.
 

FootballinTexas

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I assumed TH was the OC/QB guy based on the link. Pace, Timing, and Rhythm fall on his position.

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/coaches.html

Here are a couple questions for the football guru's:

1. Why have 2 OC's if the head coach is implementing the offense?
2. if the HC is such an offensive mind (not saying he isn't), after all these years of coaching such great teams, if he is the one implementing his offense and not the OC's, why are they struggling so much to get going? (I saw his offense at Florida during a week of coaches clinic and their fast pace no-huddle is no faster than what we have at ISU)
3. Not a question but, i though it was the position coaches responsibility to teach and prepare the players during implementation.
 

Mr Janny

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I assumed TH was the OC/QB guy based on the link. Pace, Timing, and Rhythm fall on his position.

OhioStateBuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic site of The Ohio State University - Football

Here are a couple questions for the football guru's:

1. Why have 2 OC's if the head coach is implementing the offense?
2. if the HC is such an offensive mind (not saying he isn't), after all these years of coaching such great teams, if he is the one implementing his offense and not the OC's, why are they struggling so much to get going? (I saw his offense at Florida during a week of coaches clinic and their fast pace no-huddle is no faster than what we have at ISU)
3. Not a question but, i though it was the position coaches responsibility to teach and prepare the players during implementation.


There is no way to extrapolate the answers to those questions given the limited information presented in that article. You can speculate, but that's all it would be, speculation. The one definite we can come away with is that he, himself said that he's experienced the same thing at each coaching stop he's made. Considering the success he's achieved at each of these stops, it stands to reason that his players were able to overcome the learning curve of his system fairly quickly. Any interpretation of this article that suggests that it is in any way indicative of the job that Tom Herman is doing is a tremendous reach, at best.
 

FootballinTexas

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Mr. Janny, your points are well taken. Just thought it would be good conversation. Moving on now.
 

Mr Janny

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Mr. Janny, your points are well taken. Just thought it would be good conversation. Moving on now.

Believe me, if there's good evidence that Tom Herman is a bum, I'm all for pointing it out, if only to make me feel better about him being gone.
 

Clonefan94

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I'm confused. That article doesn't say anything about Herman, and is mostly describing Meyer being upset with his players not picking up the offense fast enough, something he goes on to say was also a problem at all of his previous stops as head coach. What's the takeaway from that?

In the end, no, it does not mention Herman, but what I took from the article, if Herman is coaching at all offensively, is that we had the same issue here at ISU for his 3 years, or at the very least, that was the excuse I always heard. "It's not the scheme, it's the players running it."

Maybe that's why Meyer chose Herman, they have the same mindset of I'm not going to change, it's the players that have to. That will probably work at tOSU when you pull in the top of the top. I still believe that mentality hurt our offense here at ISU.
 

cyhiphopp

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Yeah, I don't really care if they call out TH in the article. I think it's funny that they spend a whole article talking abou the offense and don't mention the OC once.
 

jbhtexas

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Yeah, I don't really care if they call out TH in the article. I think it's funny that they spend a whole article talking abou the offense and don't mention the OC once.

OhioStateBuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic site of The Ohio State University - Football

tOSU has a rather interesting coaching setup. TH is the Offensive Coordinator. Warinner is the Co-Offensive Coordinator. Same setup on defense. One is a "full" coordinator, but one is a "co-" coordinator. Are they equal in authority? Does one have more authority than the other? Maybe it is just some scheme to differentiate pay scales. I don't recall ever seeing a setup where there is only only one "co-" position (unless the other "co-" position is vacant and being filled).
 
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VeloClone

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OhioStateBuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic site of The Ohio State University - Football

tOSU has a rather interesting coaching setup. TH is the Offensive Coordinator. Warinner is the Co-Offensive Coordinator. Same setup on defense. One is a "full" coordinator, but one is a "co-" coordinator. Are they equal in authority? Does one have more authority than the other? Maybe it is just some scheme to differentiate pay scales. I don't recall ever seeing a setup where there is only only one "co-" position (unless the other "co-" position is vacant and being filled).

Haven't you ever heard of a pilot and a co-pilot?
 

CloneAggie

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Pass plays yes. Run plays he'd be ground control.
Meyer is Ted Striker. Herman is Otto.

AutoPilot_20080717092449.jpg
 

jbhtexas

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Haven't you ever heard of a pilot and a co-pilot?

Yes I have, but I was thinking more in terms of football coaching staff terminology.

Using your airline analogy, that should make Withers the Co-Head Coach. Too bad for him, he gets the less-glamorous Assistant Head Coach title...
 
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Cycsk

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OhioStateBuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic site of The Ohio State University - Football

tOSU has a rather interesting coaching setup. TH is the Offensive Coordinator. Warinner is the Co-Offensive Coordinator. Same setup on defense. One is a "full" coordinator, but one is a "co-" coordinator. Are they equal in authority? Does one have more authority than the other? Maybe it is just some scheme to differentiate pay scales. I don't recall ever seeing a setup where there is only only one "co-" position (unless the other "co-" position is vacant and being filled).



Strange that neither are mentioned. Logical explanation is that for Meyer to blame the OC and COC is to blame himself. Not going to happen. TH is certainly not being praised for his contribution to the system (or learning the system).

Further, it is hard to imagine players in a program like Ohio State not even trying hard.
 

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