Unpaid Internship Debate

[BryceC]

Journalism was one I was thinking about. If you make all of the internships paid there you're basically just eliminated internships. Now that said, since newspapers are not the huge gatekeepers they were it might not be as important to have one with one of the big companies.

 

[MJ29]

Journalism was one I was thinking about. If you make all of the internships paid there you're basically just eliminated internships. Now that said, since newspapers are not the huge gatekeepers they were it might not be as important to have one with one of the big companies.

It's hard to get a journalism job without experience and a portfolio. At least that was true back when I was still working in the field. I've since left it.

 

[throwittoblythe]

My philosophy has always been to pay interns a market wage and then give them as many hours as they'll take (for needed work/tasks). That way we send them back to school with pockets full of money and they tell all their friends to come work for us, too. This is engineering/construction though, where an intern can easily get $15-$20/hr in todays market.

 

[cyfan92]

In my experience interns actually cost the hosting company money rather than providing any tangible value. I have no problem with them being unpaid within reason.

3 month internships, I agree. Co-op or 9 month internships are GREAT investments. I've run the model internally for our department and paying an intern $15-$16/hour for 9 months is an insane ROI versus a 5yr analyst that also has benefits costing the company

 

[VeloClone]

3 month internships, I agree. Co-op or 9 month internships are GREAT investments. I've run the model internally for our department and paying an intern $15-$16/hour for 9 months is an insane ROI versus a 5yr analyst that also has benefits costing the company

That absolutely makes sense. Like I said, not all situations are the same. Some common sense and reasonability should be used. I know that is often asking a lot.

 

[Saul_T]

Lets not forget student teaching is the exact same thing, only required by the state.

I paid full tuition while I student taught. Again, I paid full tuition to teach someone else's class for free for a full semester. This is an insane practice and needs to stop. If someone is doing work, they should get paid for said work.

 

[dawgpound]

I paid full tuition while I student taught. Again, I paid full tuition to teach someone else's class for free for a full semester. This is an insane practice and needs to stop. If someone is doing work, they should get paid for said work.

This is part of the reason I stopped the teaching part of my degree. Made zero sense to me to have to pay school full tuition to work full time

 

[Bipolarcy]

There has been quite a bit of a debate on Twitter over the past few days over the legality and exploitation involved with unpaid internships:

Tweet over an unpaid internship sparks renewed debate over exploitation - The Boston Globe

I find the debate interesting, and I can see how it makes things harder for low-income individuals who cannot afford to work without pay. At the same time I can understand many unpaid internship are well-intentioned learning experiences for the participants.

I had a few unpaid internships which were great experiences. I've found when they aren't paying you they are more receptive to letting you have a good experience as opposed to helping them generate money. But at the same time I was in a position I could endure not being paid, and they were never full time gigs.

Anyone have any internship horror stories?

I don't mind unpaid internships, but I've seen unpaid internships advertised where the company wants you to pay them for the privilege. That right there is ridiculous.

 

[BCClone]

I still

I paid full tuition while I student taught. Again, I paid full tuition to teach someone else's class for free for a full semester. This is an insane practice and needs to stop. If someone is doing work, they should get paid for said work.

You do understand that in the teaching world then, there probably would be no school willing to let people student teach? Their budgets would have to be altered or they would have to cut the supervisory teachers pay and give that away.

Let's be honest also, you didn't walk into the class the first day of the semester and the regular teacher went and drank coffee in the teachers lounge for 18 weeks while you lectured, wrote lesson plans and IAP, graded papers and everything else. My wife's student teachers have never been fully on their own. They may teach a weeks worth at best and that is pieced together, and never soley write lesson plans and other stuff.

 

[CyPhi]

Speaking from the health-care side and current doctor of physical therapy student - in my opinion, it is bananas that health care clinicals are not paid at least minimum wage. We've had multiple 12-week rotations, carried a full caseload (10-15 patients per day), and are utilized as a free employee by the clinic to bring in additional patients at zero added cost to them. The fact we had to physically pay $10K+ a semester for tuition and then do clinicials for free that made someone else money was a little wonky IMO. At least provide a stipend, reduce tuition, or provide minimum wage.

 

[nautical12]

I paid full tuition while I student taught. Again, I paid full tuition to teach someone else's class for free for a full semester. This is an insane practice and needs to stop. If someone is doing work, they should get paid for said work.

Not agreeing or disagreeing but my question is why do student teachers pay the college for that credit when the college really isn't doing any teaching to the student teachers?

 

[agrabes]

I don't understand how anyone could justify having an unpaid intern, assuming that intern is doing work for the company. If it's a job shadow, observation only, sure. Don't pay. But if they're doing work, then pay them. If you think they provide no value to the company, then don't hire them. If they provide value to the company, then pay them accordingly. Even if it's minimum wage for basic grunt labor, but pay them something.

 

[RLD4ISU]

Speaking from the health-care side and current doctor of physical therapy student - in my opinion, it is bananas that health care clinicals are not paid at least minimum wage. We've had multiple 12-week rotations, carried a full caseload (10-15 patients per day), and are utilized as a free employee by the clinic to bring in additional patients at zero added cost to them. The fact we had to physically pay $10K+ a semester for tuition and then do clinicials for free that made someone else money was a little wonky IMO. At least provide a stipend, reduce tuition, or provide minimum wage.

I hear ya.

When I went through the Radiologic Technology program, we started clinicals just 4 weeks into the program. (It was a 24 month program.) Each semester we paid 2 to 3.5/4 credit hours for the clinical rotation. We went 2 days a week (8 hours per day) for the first two semesters, then 3 days a week and the last semester was 4 days a week. You were expected to attend even during in climate weather unless the college had cancelled classes or use your personal time. I think we were allowed 8?10? days in two years that could be missed for clinical and considered "excused". A few students were able to get a limited license after a year and work as a tech while in school. At the time I went through the program, some of the students with rotations in Missouri would work a shift after finishing their clinical rotation shift (or work weekends/holidays) while finishing their second year of the program. (Missouri didn't have laws at the time to govern that) By the last half of the second year (or sooner) you were definitely able to do anything the employees could do.

We actually had a department director tell us that she made the schedule according to when we were/weren't there and she expected us to be on time and not miss any days.

 

[cowgirl836]

I hear ya.

When I went through the Radiologic Technology program, we started clinicals just 4 weeks into the program. (It was a 24 month program.) Each semester we paid 2 to 3.5/4 credit hours for the clinical rotation. We went 2 days a week (8 hours per day) for the first two semesters, then 3 days a week and the last semester was 4 days a week. You were expected to attend even during in climate weather unless the college had cancelled classes or use your personal time. I think we were allowed 8?10? days in two years that could be missed for clinical and considered "excused". A few students were able to get a limited license after a year and work as a tech while in school. At the time I went through the program, some of the students with rotations in Missouri would work a shift after finishing their clinical rotation shift (or work weekends/holidays) while finishing their second year of the program. (Missouri didn't have laws at the time to govern that) By the last half of the second year (or sooner) you were definitely able to do anything the employees could do.

We actually had a department director tell us that she made the schedule according to when we were/weren't there and she expected us to be on time and not miss any days.

The whole way that medical students are basically taken advantage of and worked to death during their trainings is really bothersome to me.

 

[farm85]

I can't believe I have to pay to student teach. All of the work and responsibility, but I'm the one paying for it.

Most cooperating teachers that mentor student teachers receive a stipend from the college.

 

[Daserop]

Unpaid internships. Just another benefit to the upper middle class who can afford it. I knew people in college who had to decline internships (once they knew they were unpaid) because they couldn't afford it.

 

[charlie_B]

Not agreeing or disagreeing but my question is why do student teachers pay the college for that credit when the college really isn't doing any teaching to the student teachers?

The college uses the money for various things. The college places every student in a school. There is a professor that observes them teaching throughout the semester. The professor has seminars for them. I do not agree with having to pay tuition during this time. The issue is the whole system is broken. Colleges do not get enough money and would not spend it there anyways

 

[BCClone]

Most cooperating teachers that mentor student teachers receive a stipend from the college.

My wife gets around $100. Not much of a stipend

 

[dualthreat]

Why on earth would anyone choose an internship that’s unpaid?

 

[AuH2O]

is that the real reason companies are doing it? They could be doing it to get work tasks done for free.

I’d say for companies I worked for in the past it was not about free/cheap labor or about helping kids out. It was a method of both recruiting and evaluation of talent.
We also paid interns, and for the most part I’d say even if they were unpaid hosting interns was a net cost to the company from a pure operational standpoint. Not because the interns were not good (they overwhelmingly were good), but if you are going to put them to work on something of enough value for both the company and intern to evaluate employment after graduation, you are probably going to invest more in training and mentorship than you get out of it. Most reasonable companies know you probably don’t get a return on investment from an employee for a year or more.

But yes, I’m sure there are companies that use interns for cheapor free labor, which probably means doing crap, low skill tasks, and I suspect neither party really gets much out of it. Companies that do that are really dumb. To bring somebody on, onboard them and train them only to have them for 2-3 months over the summer is pretty much guaranteed to be a money losing operation no matter what.

If a company brings you on as a summer intern, paid or not, approach it as a long interview. I would only intern at a company I had interest in working post-graduation.

I would prefer that unpaid internships are not legal once they are of a certain length (say 2 months or more). Otherwise it’s really putting poor kids at a disadvantage if you have to disregard unpaid internships at top companies.