What will Tebow haters say if.....

[Hawkeye11en1]

Really? Kyle Orton turned it over 9 times in the 4 1/2 games he has played. Tebow has turned it over 1 time in 6 1/2 games. You don't think that helps the defense a little? Look at Iowa State's defense. When we turn it over in opposing teams territory we give up 30+ points a game like we did against Texas.

As for the offense putting up less points. They are putting up 19 compared to 20 with Orton. HUGE difference!!! Right? Oh and Orton had Brandon Lloyd to pass to, and Moreno has another back out of the backfield

With Kyle Orton the Broncos lost AT HOME to the Raiders and Chargers. With Tebow they have won ON THE ROAD against both those teams.


Broncos defense is no different. Same players. They are playing better b/c they are put in better positions to succeed. It's tough to go 80 yards on teams and score a lot of points.

Some of that I agree with. I do. To make teams put consistent drives together all game is a great strategy. It has worked. But I think there is something to say for this D and how it has improved. They KNOW they have to go out there and shut down the offense because they don't have an offense to rely on.

However, if you look back, they lost at home to the Raiders and gave up 180+ yards rushing. Even in their win against Cinci, they gave up 330 through the air. The defense is coming together and Von Miller is showing us why he is the Defensive Rookie of the Year (imo). Heck, they gave up 300+ passing yards to the Titans and 200+ rushing to the Chargers. They are playing better and that is the bottom line.

Tim Tebow is allowing that to happen by not turning it over, but A LOT of the reason they are playing better is because of this D.

 

[3TrueFans]

The one universal truth through all of this is that Von Miller is a straight up beast.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

The one universal truth through all of this is that Von Miller is a straight up beast.

Unblockable, some say.

 

[Clones85']

Some of that I agree with. I do. To make teams put consistent drives together all game is a great strategy. It has worked. But I think there is something to say for this D and how it has improved. They KNOW they have to go out there and shut down the offense because they don't have an offense to rely on.

However, if you look back, they lost at home to the Raiders and gave up 180+ yards rushing. Even in their win against Cinci, they gave up 330 through the air. The defense is coming together and Von Miller is showing us why he is the Defensive Rookie of the Year (imo). Heck, they gave up 300+ passing yards to the Titans and 200+ rushing to the Chargers. They are playing better and that is the bottom line.

Tim Tebow is allowing that to happen by not turning it over, but A LOT of the reason they are playing better is because of this D.

They've NEVER had an offense to rely on. In 4.5 games w/ Orton the offense averaged 17.11 points per game and turned over 12 times. In 6.5 games with Tebow the offense has averaged 17.84 points per game and turned over 5 times.

So offense is exactly the same points wise. Only thing that has changed is less turnovers and more time of possession. 2 extra turnovers a game are key reasons why the defense looks better.

 

[IowaSTATCyclone]

Some of that I agree with. I do. To make teams put consistent drives together all game is a great strategy. It has worked. But I think there is something to say for this D and how it has improved. They KNOW they have to go out there and shut down the offense because they don't have an offense to rely on.

However, if you look back, they lost at home to the Raiders and gave up 180+ yards rushing. Even in their win against Cinci, they gave up 330 through the air. The defense is coming together and Von Miller is showing us why he is the Defensive Rookie of the Year (imo). Heck, they gave up 300+ passing yards to the Titans and 200+ rushing to the Chargers. They are playing better and that is the bottom line.

Tim Tebow is allowing that to happen by not turning it over, but A LOT of the reason they are playing better is because of this D.

The defense is magically "coming together" because they aren't on the field constantly due to a crumbling offense. That is because of Tebow. It is miraculous how a defense can get better when it isn't running back onto the field after a pick or a bunch of clock-halting incompletions enroute to a 3-and-out.

As a defensive minded guy, I know I become a "better" player when I know I'm not going to spend half the game having to clean up the offense's spills.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

The defense is magically "coming together" because they aren't on the field constantly due to a crumbling offense. That is because of Tebow. It is miraculous how a defense can get better when it isn't running back onto the field after a pick or a bunch of clock-halting incompletions enroute to a 3-and-out.

As a defensive minded guy, I know I become a "better" player when I know I'm not going to spend half the game having to clean up the offense's spills.

I get that, but Tebow is still going 3 and out a large number of times. Look at his 3rd down throwing percentage. It is brutally bad. Look at the TOP in the SD game they lost when Tebow first came in. It's astounding. His ability to not turn the ball over is a definite plus, but its not like it is swinging the TOP in his favor so much that his D is on the field much less. They are obviously playing better. Having Champ Bailey healthy certainly helps that.

 

[IowaSTATCyclone]

I get that, but Tebow is still going 3 and out a large number of times. Look at his 3rd down throwing percentage. It is brutally bad. Look at the TOP in the SD game they lost when Tebow first came in. It's astounding. His ability to not turn the ball over is a definite plus, but its not like it is swinging the TOP in his favor so much that his D is on the field much less. They are obviously playing better. Having Champ Bailey healthy certainly helps that.

They are 8th in TOP with Tebow.

They were 25th with Orton.

That's darn significant. Counting only 3rd down throws is irrelevant, esp. with a QB who is averaging what? (off memory here) 5 yards a carry?

So, an ungassed defense, w/ a offense holding onto the ball longer, and running the clock down - obviously all this is a combo. But to look at the W/L records, and the very obvious palpable, visable difference in defensive play, perfectly coinciding w/ Tebow's arrival?

Sorry. Not a coincidence.

 

[Clones85']

I get that, but Tebow is still going 3 and out a large number of times. Look at his 3rd down throwing percentage. It is brutally bad. Look at the TOP in the SD game they lost when Tebow first came in. It's astounding. His ability to not turn the ball over is a definite plus, but its not like it is swinging the TOP in his favor so much that his D is on the field much less. They are obviously playing better. Having Champ Bailey healthy certainly helps that.

I'm not sure what you are talking about with TOP. They are way better at TOP under Tebow

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

I'm not sure what you are talking about with TOP. They are way better at TOP under Tebow

Oak 27:25 Broncos 32:35
Cinci 30:15 Broncos 29:45
Tenn 30:54 Broncos 29:06
GB 33:01 Broncos 26:59
SD 40:08 Broncos 19:52 (Tebow takes over at halftime, Chargers have over 20 min of possession in 2nd half)
Miami 33:19 Broncos 34:17 (OT game)
Detroit 30:26 Broncos 29:34
Oak 28:09 Broncos 31:51
Chiefs 26:22 Broncos 33:38
Jets 27:48 Broncos 32:12
Chargers 37:08 Chargers 37:23 (OT game)

If you flip-flop Orton getting to start against KC and Tebow starting against GB, I really don't see a big difference here. The Jets game was a good game for him TOP wise, but the Chiefs offense is REALLY bad and that is going to affect that game big time. In fact, that was the game where Tebow only completed 2 passes. The running game took over and Tebow only attempted about 8 passes.

I will concede the TO argument. I know it helps the defense as they get to punt it 40 yards and make the other offense work, but I still don't buy the TOP argument. The Jets game was the only time that they had much of a difference in which they were playing a team with a pulse.

 

[CYVADER]

maybe the defense is actually trying harder now because tebow is the starting QB? his team mates BELIEVE in him. they did not believe in mopy mcmoperson Orton. the d is coming together partly because they are gelling, but i think a lot of their resurgence is a direct correlation to the switch of qb's. watch the player interviews. they are all smiles, happy, joking, and honestly having fun BECAUSE of Tebus. they weren't doing any of those things under Orton.

and i will say that while going 9-18 yesterday wasn't great, he had at least 3 drops that were completely on his wr core. his passes looked way better yesterday. the one to decker for a td was spot on perfect, as was the one to rosario that set up the game tying field goal.

no qb gets critiqued as hard as Tebus, so every pass he makes you sit there and say, that either sucked, or it was money. fact is, there are probably a lot of qbs in the league that have errant passes every game that don't get noticed as much because of who they are vs. who he is.

and as a bronkey fan, i was embarassed when they drafted him and almost wanted to find a new team. now i've embraced him and love the style of play they've gone to. no doubt in my mind the stuff he says he truely believes, and i, for one, find that refreshing.

 

[ketelmeister]

When you don't fumble or throw interceptions, you can have more 3 and outs.. Field position is a big part of the reasons they are winning. Tebow takes care of the ball.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

When you don't fumble or throw interceptions, you can have more 3 and outs.. Field position is a big part of the reasons they are winning. Tebow takes care of the ball.

So you are saying no turnovers happen on the +50 side of the field?

 

[kberyldial]

I take that back. The one other thing that changed under Tebow is that the schedule got harder.

Teams Orton played are 54-34
Teams Jesus has played are 31-36
Denver gave up 28 points a game for Orton
Denver is giving up 17 points a game for Jesus

Go take a good look at the schedule if you think it has gotten harder. You are dreaming.

Lots of good NFL quarterbacks played on bad teams and never won anything. Plenty of bad NFL quarterbacks won on good teams. Jesus has played how many games? I'll be right in the end. He's a glorified running back. His stats prove it. Look how long the pistol lasted in Miami? About a year and a half. Defenses will adjust and force him to throw and he won't be able to. Denver hasn't turned the ball over because they're not throwing the ball. Good for them. Credit to Fox for coming up with a way to satisfy the sheep like you that clamor for Timothy. Credit to the DEFENSE for playing better. Credit to the KICKER for making a FG yesterday when it mattered. Credit to the OFFENSIVE LINE for blocking. I'll give credit to Tebow when he does something beside eek out wins against **** poor teams.

 

[Doc]

There are those who don't like Tim Tebow because of his religion. He is 4-1 as a starter for Denver, who are now in the playoff hunt. They played him because they had given up. Now many say he shouldn't be in. What do they say if he gets to the Superbowl?
He can't pass, but all's he does if win.

I thought that one big reason I didn't like Tim Tebow was his religion, but since I can't help cheering for him this year, that must not be it.

It's the narrative that I see him in that causes me to like or dislike him. I love him (despite being a Donkey) in the role of underdog, the super-nice guy who many people didn't give a chance to succeed. I didn't like him in the of role super-nice hyped-up Christian guy at national powerhouse Florida running behind the Pouncey brothers and handing off to Percy Harvin, throwing to Aaron Hernandez, etc.

It wasn't his Christianity or him as a person at all, it was the his position in the story that caused me to cheer against his STORY. If RGIII was as outspoken a Christian as he was, I would still like RGIII.

 

[kberyldial]

Newsflash to you STAT - Denver started 6-0 in 2009 didn't they? We'll see what happens.

 

[ISUFan22]

Really? Kyle Orton turned it over 9 times in the 4 1/2 games he has played. Tebow has turned it over 1 time in 6 1/2 games. You don't think that helps the defense a little? Look at Iowa State's defense. When we turn it over in opposing teams territory we give up 30+ points a game like we did against Texas.

As for the offense putting up less points. They are putting up 19 compared to 20 with Orton. HUGE difference!!! Right? Oh and Orton had Brandon Lloyd to pass to, and Moreno has another back out of the backfield

With Kyle Orton the Broncos lost AT HOME to the Raiders and Chargers. With Tebow they have won ON THE ROAD against both those teams.


Broncos defense is no different. Same players. They are playing better b/c they are put in better positions to succeed. It's tough to go 80 yards on teams and score a lot of points.

+1

They've NEVER had an offense to rely on. In 4.5 games w/ Orton the offense averaged 17.11 points per game and turned over 12 times. In 6.5 games with Tebow the offense has averaged 17.84 points per game and turned over 5 times.

So offense is exactly the same points wise. Only thing that has changed is less turnovers and more time of possession. 2 extra turnovers a game are key reasons why the defense looks better.

Another +1. This should shut up the critics that Tebow can't score points. Well, the offense can't score many points, but it's still better than it was with Orton. While the QB role is extremely important to an offense, if the surrounding cast isn't good - the QB can only do so much.

Kurt Warner was WAAY more over the top with his religious beliefs than Tim Tebow has ever been. The world has just changed a lot the past 5 years. You have a lot of people who get offended by everything and make big deals out of nothing.

Some serious irony here. Warner mentioned God every time he got on camera. I don't see Tebow doing that.


Again, the "hate" toward Tebow lacks intelligence and is completely misguided. The media is doing this (obsession, excessive hype, etc) - not Tim Tebow.

However, in our society, it seems like people love to hate on a winner...

 

[cyhiphopp]

Tebow does not throw the ball well, but he is protecting the ball so far and for now, he's getting it done. In the future, it Denver starts to tank, then you can get on him for not being a good QB. The guy is a hard worker and seems willing to do anything it takes to get better. Personally, I hope he improves as a passer in the next few years and turns into Big Ben with a bit less passing finesse. Heck, if the Broncos want to trade him to the Steelers, then please do. He could learn a lot from Big Ben and I wouldn't have to worry about him getting arrested.
Tebow has a big arm and he has made some good passes. He just doesn't do it consistently. If he improves his accuracy and continues to succeed, then more power to him.

I don't think Tebow has ever said, "Hey! Look at me! I'm awesome!" The media has built up that hype machine. Tebow just wants to work hard and win football games. He's doing that and even as a Steelers fan, I respect that.

 

[cybsball20]

Funny how Tebow rarely brings up anything other than thanking god unless he is challenged or asked about it. Normally he is praising his teammates and staff... Warner on the other hand was a total I-guy and is even more in his retirement.

 

[IowaSTATCyclone]

Newsflash to you STAT - Denver started 6-0 in 2009 didn't they? We'll see what happens.

Of course we will, but that takes nothing away from the fact that the 4th string QB who obviously had no business on the field, and was going to help Denver "suck for Luck" is now jockeying for playoff position.

Smith and Flacco are riding good defense toward victory, not Tebow. The Broncos defense is 22nd in the league in PPG and has only 13 takeaways - not exactly world beaters (Jets defense is far better). If you can't look at the on-field leadership of this team and see where the difference is, I can only assume you don't comprehend the NFL, in the least.

Orton, this year, did nothing to lead the Broncos against beatable teams. With nearly identical teams, Tebow reversed that. You play the season you are in. By everyone's estimation of his "mechanics" (which, incidentally, have been overcoached and worsened by NFL gurus who get paid to screw things up) the dude should certainly be worse than John Elway's first five games, right? Problem is, he isn't. He's way better.

Honestly, how long do you think it takes a professional defense to "figure out" a run-first offense? One season? Two? Half a season? Try one game. It isn't like they are sitting in a fading Tampa 2, worrying about Tebow's gun. They are stacking, and yet the Broncos break it down. So it isn't a question of comprehending the "oh so complex and unusual" Bronco offense, it's a question of stopping it when the game is on the line.

Handwave the victories away. Handwave the fact that the team loves having Tebow leading them. Handwave the future.

But you are missing the obvious if you can look at this talent poor team who was given zero chance of success and say they aren't kicking expectation to the curb.

And as for Denver starting 6-0? That's the precise difference between this year and that one: it is the thick of the season, not the start, the hard part, with pretenders dropping out and contenders grinding against opposition who knows exactly what they are.

Look at the teams that are getting stronger. The Broncos are among them.

 

[WalkingCY]

I always rooted against Tebow when he was at Florida because I couldn't stand the lovefest for him. Now that people are doubting him (including prominent members of the Denver organization it seems) I can't help but root for the guy. QUOTE]



This is where I am with Tebow. Totally rooting for him now. And I am NOT a Broncos fan at all, never have been. (I guess I just never root for a southern college team in general, especially UF, they can get anyone they want...)

Heck, he is a good person too, and just tenacious on the field to find a way to win. I like players like that. Found it very funny that pathetic Neckbeard Orton was benched and the team just looks so much better and is actually taking care of the ball and winning now too.