Why does Nebraska struggle with MBB?

[ScottyP]

While in Ames Fred benefitted greatly from Abdelmassih’s…certain skills…getting us players in questionable ways. And also imo benefited greatly from Bobby Lutz helping to jump-start things in the in-game coaching realm.

Nebraska suffers from our main issue - lack of in-state talent to rely upon. That will never change. We counter it with a TJ who recruits the Midwest like a mad man and sells himself. Fred doesn’t feel the need to sell himself. That will always be a road block to Fred/Nebraska’s success. That program won’t get the talent Fred got in Ames without guys like Abdemassih/TJ making it happen. Doesn’t look like they have that guy right now based on their current roster construction.

Nebraska could be big winners with the right coach, just like any program.

Abdelmassih was part of Fred's downfall in my opinion. He was more of a bag man and a poor evaluator for the most part. Yes, he pulled in a few decent transfers but he also swung for high end guys that didn't fit (example: Rashad Vaughn).

Fred brought Abdelmassih with him to Nebraska and he hasn't been able to bring in the right players.

 

[Malone]

Abdelmassih was part of Fred's downfall in my opinion. He was more of a bag man and a poor evaluator for the most part. Yes, he pulled in a few decent transfers but he also swung for high end guys that didn't fit (example: Rashad Vaughn).

Fred brought Abdelmassih with him to Nebraska and he hasn't been able to bring in the right players.

We created/cornered the transfer market when few others were considering it. Who do you think was contacting potential transfers while they were at their prior schools?

No argument that he’s been mostly ineffective since that market became competitive

 

[not-the-manager]

While in Ames Fred benefitted greatly from Abdelmassih’s…certain skills…getting us players in questionable ways. And also imo benefited greatly from Bobby Lutz helping to jump-start things in the in-game coaching realm.

Nebraska suffers from our main issue - lack of in-state talent to rely upon. That will never change. We counter it with a TJ who recruits the Midwest like a mad man and sells himself. Fred doesn’t feel the need to sell himself. That will always be a road block to Fred/Nebraska’s success. That program won’t get the talent Fred got in Ames without guys like Abdemassih/TJ making it happen. Doesn’t look like they have that guy right now based on their current roster construction.

Nebraska could be big winners with the right coach, just like any program.

counterpoint—Hunter Sallis, Chucky Hepburn, John Tonje, Baylor Scheierman, just in the last ~four years. I'm probably forgetting some. not All-Americans, but not a recruiting desert. Now, obviously they've had the same problem as the football program did for years: keeping guys in-state

 

[Cyched]

While in Ames Fred benefitted greatly from Abdelmassih’s…certain skills…getting us players in questionable ways. And also imo benefited greatly from Bobby Lutz helping to jump-start things in the in-game coaching realm.

Nebraska suffers from our main issue - lack of in-state talent to rely upon. That will never change. We counter it with a TJ who recruits the Midwest like a mad man and sells himself. Fred doesn’t feel the need to sell himself. That will always be a road block to Fred/Nebraska’s success. That program won’t get the talent Fred got in Ames without guys like Abdemassih/TJ making it happen. Doesn’t look like they have that guy right now based on their current roster construction.

Nebraska could be big winners with the right coach, just like any program.

You do bring up a good point. However comfortable or uncomfortable Fred is at selling himself, he was always able to sell Iowa State with his story. Complemented with Otz's recruiting, and we got dudes that were not only good ball players, but high character guys.

With his moves to the NBA and now Lincoln, I've always felt like losing those intangibles has hurt him more than anything. He's a smart enough guy he can adapt to the game - shaking up his staff a couple years ago seemed to right things.

He'll be fine at Nebraska, and keep them in tourney contention most years, but I don't see him taking the Huskers to the highs TJ is on the cusp of taking ISU to.

 

[clonedude]

I know everyone says "Football School or "basketball School" or in Iowa's case, "womens basketball school". However, it's pretty true. Most schools are usually known for something. Iowa State is known for Basketball and has always been. Nebraska is a football school. So when recruiting for basketball it seems it was very hard to get recruits. Sure a couple good players here and there. Just when you think "Where am I giong to go play basketball, Schools like Nebraska, Minnesota and so on don't get recruits. Illinois, Iowa State, Kansas, K STate are known as basketball schools and it shows.

Nebby sucks at football too…. haven’t been relevant forever. They are a women’s volleyball school now.

 

[FerShizzle]

Literally every season at least since ISU was back in NCAA tourney contention under Fred, probably before that, everybody says the bubble is soft/weak. Every year, everybody says this exact same thing.

At some point has something structurally changed that makes this so? Is it that there have become 40 or so programs that have really separated themselves as perennial locks or close to it, that there is always this big dropoff?

Just wondering, because from when I started regaining interest in bracket predictions in 2011-12, every year everybody seems to say the bubble is weak this year.

The bubble is soft for mid big 10 teams. It is a much more daunting bubble for a second bid out of the MVC or other small conferences. The middle of the big 10 is **** and the big 10 has to get at least 8 teams in, so ‘the bubble is soft’. It’s no coincidence that the soft bubble coincides with ****** big 10 basketball.

 

[Nebraskaclone]

I grew up in Nebraska and went to college at Nebraska-Lincoln.

They had a good coach in the 1990s named Danny Nee, but they fired him. Then they had a string of coaches that were average or below. I remember when Tim Miles made the tournament his second year, it was like Jesus had shown up on campus. Tim was so cocky and confident, like he was going to win Nebraska's first tournament game. After the blowout loss to Baylor in the tournament they never recovered.

The average Husker fan that I know is surprisingly confident about the team, but not mad when they lose. Fred has them in a good spot for them and they accept being average to somewhat relevant. When I went to college there, the student section was like a morgue. Barry Collier was the coach back then and the team was lame. People still clung to football and we had an excellent baseball team also, along with good women's basketball, so men's basketball was easy to ignore.

Fred Hoiberg was one of my first childhood heroes, and I want him to succeed wherever he is at. By Nebraska basketball's historical standards, he is doing a phenomenal job.

 

[Malone]

counterpoint—Hunter Sallis, Chucky Hepburn, John Tonje, Baylor Scheierman, just in the last ~four years. I'm probably forgetting some. not All-Americans, but not a recruiting desert. Now, obviously they've had the same problem as the football program did for years: keeping guys in-state

In a bubble that sounds good. Over time, imagine Nebraska’s talent bed is only marginally better than Iowa’s. A good counterpoint to your counterpoint being 2024 class - the best recruits being Braden Frager and Treysom Anderson. Neither are top 175 dudes. More of the same in 2023. And there aren’t even enough recruits in the 247 database to fill a list for the state of Nebraska beyond two players for the last two recruiting cycles.

 

[VeloClone]

Literally every season at least since ISU was back in NCAA tourney contention under Fred, probably before that, everybody says the bubble is soft/weak. Every year, everybody says this exact same thing.

At some point has something structurally changed that makes this so? Is it that there have become 40 or so programs that have really separated themselves as perennial locks or close to it, that there is always this big dropoff?

Just wondering, because from when I started regaining interest in bracket predictions in 2011-12, every year everybody seems to say the bubble is weak this year.

It's almost like there are 4 more teams being invited to the tournament than there should be...

Go back to 64

 

[Cyched]

I grew up in Nebraska and went to college at Nebraska-Lincoln.

They had a good coach in the 1990s named Danny Nee, but they fired him. Then they had a string of coaches that were average or below. I remember when Tim Miles made the tournament his second year, it was like Jesus had shown up on campus. Tim was so cocky and confident, like he was going to win Nebraska's first tournament game. After the blowout loss to Baylor in the tournament they never recovered.

The average Husker fan that I know is surprisingly confident about the team, but not mad when they lose. Fred has them in a good spot for them and they accept being average to somewhat relevant. When I went to college there, the student section was like a morgue. Barry Collier was the coach back then and the team was lame. People still clung to football and we had an excellent baseball team also, along with good women's basketball, so men's basketball was easy to ignore.

Fred Hoiberg was one of my first childhood heroes, and I want him to succeed wherever he is at. By Nebraska basketball's historical standards, he is doing a phenomenal job.

Username checks out

 

[not-the-manager]

I grew up in Nebraska and went to college at Nebraska-Lincoln.

They had a good coach in the 1990s named Danny Nee, but they fired him. Then they had a string of coaches that were average or below. I remember when Tim Miles made the tournament his second year, it was like Jesus had shown up on campus. Tim was so cocky and confident, like he was going to win Nebraska's first tournament game. After the blowout loss to Baylor in the tournament they never recovered.

The average Husker fan that I know is surprisingly confident about the team, but not mad when they lose. Fred has them in a good spot for them and they accept being average to somewhat relevant. When I went to college there, the student section was like a morgue. Barry Collier was the coach back then and the team was lame. People still clung to football and we had an excellent baseball team also, along with good women's basketball, so men's basketball was easy to ignore.

Fred Hoiberg was one of my first childhood heroes, and I want him to succeed wherever he is at. By Nebraska basketball's historical standards, he is doing a phenomenal job.

This is spot-on. (I went to at least one of Collier's basketball camps by the way.) I attended ISU but, while disappointed in never getting over the hump, my friends who went to UNL don't really even put a second thought towards the state of Nebraska's program or its long-term prospects. Yes, being competitive is good enough, and Hoiberg should be able to keep them competitive. not sure how you convince collective or athletic department to throw more cash your way when that's how fans feel, though, so I don't know that they'll ever be a contender (conference or tournament run)

In a bubble that sounds good. Over time, imagine Nebraska’s talent bed is only marginally better than Iowa’s. A good counterpoint to your counterpoint being 2024 class - the best recruits being Braden Frager and Treysom Anderson. Neither are top 175 dudes. More of the same in 2023. And there aren’t even enough recruits in the 247 database to fill a list for the state of Nebraska beyond two players for the last two recruiting cycles.

I agree with this and your original underlying point, was more playing devil's advocate

 

[simply1]

Throw in Creighton is right up the road selling out a massive arena every game.

They’re a problem for us too at some level I’d imagine.

 

[ISUTex]

I know this may be covered in other threads but I'd be curious to get some new perspectives. Why do some programs struggle so much in certain sports? It looks like Huskers will miss the dance again despite having a coach that took ISU to a number 2 seed. I'd be curious to hear opinions on not just Nebraska but other schools as well.

https://www.si.com/college/nebraska...nded-its-tournament-hopes-cornhuskers-big-ten

Because Kansas and Creighton. That's why.

 

[awd4cy]

Literally every season at least since ISU was back in NCAA tourney contention under Fred, probably before that, everybody says the bubble is soft/weak. Every year, everybody says this exact same thing.

At some point has something structurally changed that makes this so? Is it that there have become 40 or so programs that have really separated themselves as perennial locks or close to it, that there is always this big dropoff?

Just wondering, because from when I started regaining interest in bracket predictions in 2011-12, every year everybody seems to say the bubble is weak this year.

Nope, nothing has changed since then. It’s just a fun phrase everyone likes to throw around.

 

[awd4cy]

While in Ames Fred benefitted greatly from Abdelmassih’s…certain skills…getting us players in questionable ways. And also imo benefited greatly from Bobby Lutz helping to jump-start things in the in-game coaching realm.

Nebraska suffers from our main issue - lack of in-state talent to rely upon. That will never change. We counter it with a TJ who recruits the Midwest like a mad man and sells himself. Fred doesn’t feel the need to sell himself. That will always be a road block to Fred/Nebraska’s success. That program won’t get the talent Fred got in Ames without guys like Abdemassih/TJ making it happen. Doesn’t look like they have that guy right now based on their current roster construction.

Nebraska could be big winners with the right coach, just like any program.

Could probably play the same game with Otz. Our success the first 4 years has been largely from our defensive identity, which came from Kyle Green. What does Iowa State basketball look like if Green leaves, or if TJ left, how would he look elsewhere? Part of being a good head coach is surrounding yourself with good assistant coaches.

I think Nebraskas struggles have more to do with talent. These Nebraska teams are nothing like our teams with Ejim, Niang, Morris, Royce, Kane, Naz, etc.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Torvik has Nebraska as literally the last team to make the tournament right now...



...if making it to Dayton as the last team invited is "making the tournament."

 

[Malone]

Could probably play the same game with Otz. Our success the first 4 years has been largely from our defensive identity, which came from Kyle Green. What does Iowa State basketball look like if Green leaves, or if TJ left, how would he look elsewhere? Part of being a good head coach is surrounding yourself with good assistant coaches.

I think Nebraskas struggles have more to do with talent. These Nebraska teams are nothing like our teams with Ejim, Niang, Morris, Royce, Kane, Naz, etc.

I absolutely agree. Kyle Green has been instrumental in TJ’s success in multiple ways. Talking heads frequently say TJ is a great coach and that’s not wrong, but the in-game stuff and player improvement is heavily tied in with Green.

 

[AlaCyclone]

Because they touch themselves at night

 

[CascadeClone]

They put this into the world. Cursed themselves until the end of time.

View attachment 143945

Disagree, this is probably the best thing ever to come out of Nubs.

 

[Sigmapolis]