Would TJ drop everything and take the ISU job if it came open?

[Gunnerclone]

UNLV is now 0-4.

I know I make all of my decisions based on only the four most recent data points of only one side of the transaction.

 

[Cyched]

I know I make all of my decisions based on only the four most recent data points of only one side of the transaction.

 

[Cyched]

Anyone who reads any of my posts during the basketball seasons know that I had been a passionate, even strident, fan and defender of CSP. And that's not necessarily because I felt he was the best coach in the conference, but more because I felt a need to defend him against the vocal minority of fans who decided to hate him and be against him from the moment he was hired; not because of anything he did or didn't do on the court, but rather because of who he wasn't and who he replaced.

And I am not engaging in hyperbole with that; there are posters who have stated that they feel the '14-15 season that ended with a huge upset loss in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament to 'freakin UAB was a better season then the next one that ended up in the Sweet 16. There are posters on here who hold us beating 12/13 "mid-major" seeds against him as opposed to a "name team" like UCONN back in 2012 (again, I am not making that up). There were people who were upset that we didn't beat Texas Tech (only the national runner-up who lost to only us on their home court that '18-'19 season) by double digits. His successes in 3 out of his first 4 seasons here are on par with the accomplishment from other coaches of our historically good teams, and I will absolutely defend those good seasons against the unfair and irrational criticism against him based on who he's not until the day I die. I will absolutely fight on that hill.

Now, that all being written, the numbers and the records are what they are, and there is no question that we are trending downward. Too much player attrition, for both good and bad reasons, have really held this program back, and that is ultimately his responsibility. The only player left from our recruiting class a couple of years ago is Trae Jackson, and two of him contemporaries never even saw the floor before transferring out. Somebody else wrote that George Conditt is the only player left from his class. ISU is not the type of program that can consistently replace our best players who might leave early (like TH) with identical talent the way a program like Kansas or Kentucky can. Our recruiting is certainly going well, but it's not going THAT well. IMO, it's important for us to develop solid 4-year players for us to be a good, top level Big 12 program, but obviously you can't do that when your recruits don't pan out and transfer early.

I want CSP to succeed, but I fear the writing is on the wall. If someone like Thad Matta, or maybe even John Beilein is available at the end of the season and are interested in coaching again, I think you need to make those calls. Either way, I hope to see improvement over the course of the season, and I'll support the team regardless of what happens on the court.

One of the reasons I voiced support for him in the past is that I think our program needs to end this revolving door of coaches we’ve had since Johnny retired. To me that’s the biggest reason we haven’t taken the “next step” we want so badly. And some of those guys being poor hires hasn’t helped.

Now, that’s no excuse to hang on to an underperforming coach, but at some point I want to see a guy stick here and have success.

The consensus seems to be that Prohm has through 2022 given the financial hit this year. If he hasn’t turned things around by then, he’ll have had ample time to build his program, and it’ll be best for both parties to move on.

 

[isufanz1]

That is on the AD who gave the man an unnecessary extension two years ago. Gotta take the good with the bad and the AD screwed the pooch on this one. Bad work out of him. Many people said so at the time too.

Couldn't agree with you more - but watch out for the large contingent of people here who think Baby J walks on water.

 

[cyfan92]

Craig Smith at Utah St > TJ ... in my opinion is the superior coach. Tj is a great recruiter and you have to think this is as close to a dream job as he has

 

[isutrevman]

I know I make all of my decisions based on only the four most recent data points of only one side of the transaction.

17-15 last year. I'm just not convinced TJ is a step up from Prohm. I'd like to see him have success at UNLV before Iowa State considers hiring him. He hasn't done that yet. He seems almost like a copy of Prohm to me. A good recruiter, but a below average coach.

 

[clonefreek]

ISU was decent during Fred's tenure, in terms of Defensive Rebound % (Houge, Ejim, and Royce led the way). First year was bad. Getting into the top 100 would certainly create more offensive possessions for this team.

Eustachy's teams were phenomenal.

View attachment 78753

Prohm has a top JUCO program an hour and a half from Ames and doesnt even go there to talk to anyone. The last few years they have sent people to Virginia and kansas. Need more Dogs like Hogue.

 

[jsb]

Prohm has a top JUCO program an hour and a half from Ames and doesnt even go there to talk to anyone. The last few years they have sent people to Virginia and kansas. Need more Dogs like Hogue.

We are currently recruiting an Indian hills guy.

 

[ISUChippewa]

One of the reasons I voiced support for him in the past is that I think our program needs to end this revolving door of coaches we’ve had since Johnny retired. To me that’s the biggest reason we haven’t taken the “next step” we want so badly. And some of those guys being poor hires hasn’t helped.

Now, that’s no excuse to hang on to an underperforming coach, but at some point I want to see a guy stick here and have success.

The consensus seems to be that Prohm has through 2022 given the financial hit this year. If he hasn’t turned things around by then, he’ll have had ample time to build his program, and it’ll be best for both parties to move on.

Thank you for mentioning that. It's something I forgot to write about in my original post. Since Johnny Orr left more than 25 years ago now, besides CSP who is starting his 6th season the longest tenured coaches we have had are LE and FH at 5 seasons each. Floyd and GM lasted for only 4 season, and WM for 3. That is a ridiculous amount of turnover at a Power 5 school, and it's one of the reasons why I wanted to punch my laptop screen when I read posters advocating for firing CSP at the end of his 4th season (2018-19) for a weak regular season finish that still ended in a 23-win season.

 

[Cyched]

Thank you for mentioning that. It's something I forgot to write about in my original post. Since Johnny Orr left more than 25 years ago now, besides CSP who is starting his 6th season the longest tenured coaches we have had are LE and FH at 5 seasons each. Floyd and GM lasted for only 4 season, and WM for 3. That is a ridiculous amount of turnover at a Power 5 school, and it's one of the reasons why I wanted to punch my laptop screen when I read posters advocating for firing CSP at the end of his 4th season (2018-19) for a weak regular season finish that still ended in a 23-win season.

Yeah, the end of that season was messy, but I agree that was uncalled for afterwards. Prohm’s first four years were very similar to Floyd’s tenure here in terms of record and accomplishments.

The trends since then are certainly worrisome, to put it diplomatically.

 

[heitclone]

Thank you for mentioning that. It's something I forgot to write about in my original post. Since Johnny Orr left more than 25 years ago now, besides CSP who is starting his 6th season the longest tenured coaches we have had are LE and FH at 5 seasons each. Floyd and GM lasted for only 4 season, and WM for 3. That is a ridiculous amount of turnover at a Power 5 school, and it's one of the reasons why I wanted to punch my laptop screen when I read posters advocating for firing CSP at the end of his 4th season (2018-19) for a weak regular season finish that still ended in a 23-win season.

There was definitely overreaction but looking back, the issues we saw were real and foreshadowed where we were headed. The writing was on the wall. I get him getting a pass for 17-18, even though we were much better than we played, it was a rebuild but even that year, we saw signs of what a Steve Prohm team was going to look like. It was obvious something had changed in the program.

 

[rochclone]

It is a difference.........................of 4 games. Big enough for the constant p****** and moaning every....................single...................game? Even in a win? For reference there is always this:


Johnny Orr's conference record over 14 seasons was 79-117
His last five years were 27-43
that rounds to a best average of 6-8

Tim Floyd was 30-30 over 4 years which is about 8-8

LE was 42-38 over 5 years which is about 9-7

Wayne was 22-26 over 3 years which is about 7-9

GMAC was 18-46 over 4 seasons which is about 5-11

So as you can see, outside of GMAC.....there are no huge outliers here. A game or two around .500 is the mark. Some good years.....some average.......some bad. I guess it's up to each of us when we think it's time to get a rope. Mine was GMAC....year 4. It seems with Steve you tied that knot 5 years ago and have been trying to push the chair from under his feet ever since. Like I said last year it's up to you....but being depressed all season because you don't like a coach is a miserable way to be a fan. I mean we are just 2 games into this season and here we are..............let's talk come Feb. or March.

It was after the Florida AM when things had ran its course. It was inexcusable to lose to a bottom 50 team in the NCAA on your home floor. What has he done since that day to instill confidence?
And you are great at moving the goalposts. Originally the debate was about Prohm being better than Hoiberg? Nobody was looking for him to be fired in the first two years. Are we finished with that initial debate? The debate about him losing his job really came to a head last year. Win games it’s that simple.
Don’t take a top 15 job and then turn it into a cesspool five years later and expect everyone to be happy with your job performance.

 

[clonefreek]

We are currently recruiting an Indian hills guy.

Who? I havent seen anything like that

 

[jsb]

Who? I havent seen anything like that

I read it in the register. The most recent article by their recruiting guy.

 

[MJN]

Leath didn't "veto" anyone - this is a total myth. Prohm was Pollard's choice, and only Pollard picked him.

It could be a myth but from what I was told it wasn’t.

 

[heitclone]

It is a difference.........................of 4 games. Big enough for the constant p****** and moaning every....................single...................game? Even in a win? For reference there is always this:


Johnny Orr's conference record over 14 seasons was 79-117
His last five years were 27-43
that rounds to a best average of 6-8

Tim Floyd was 30-30 over 4 years which is about 8-8

LE was 42-38 over 5 years which is about 9-7

Wayne was 22-26 over 3 years which is about 7-9

GMAC was 18-46 over 4 seasons which is about 5-11

So as you can see, outside of GMAC.....there are no huge outliers here. A game or two around .500 is the mark. Some good years.....some average.......some bad. I guess it's up to each of us when we think it's time to get a rope. Mine was GMAC....year 4. It seems with Steve you tied that knot 5 years ago and have been trying to push the chair from under his feet ever since. Like I said last year it's up to you....but being depressed all season because you don't like a coach is a miserable way to be a fan. I mean we are just 2 games into this season and here we are..............let's talk come Feb. or March.

By your TJ reasoning (that a coach doesn't get credit for teams he didn't recruit every player for) Prohm's first two seasons don't count. HIS teams at ISU are actually:

49-51 overall, 18-36 in big 12 play.

 

[ISUChippewa]

There was definitely overreaction but looking back, the issues we saw were real and foreshadowed where we were headed. The writing was on the wall. I get him getting a pass for 17-18, even though we were much better than we played, it was a rebuild but even that year, we saw signs of what a Steve Prohm team was going to look like. It was obvious something had changed in the program.

I wouldn't say I enjoyed that '17-'18 season, but there were some real bright moments in there; won a non-conference tournament down in Florida (albeit against so-so competition), but we also absolutely curb stomped ranked teams like Texas Tech and West Virginia in Hilton (and the West Virginia win was even without Nick Weiler-Babb). It was much more enjoyable than last season, which absolutely sucked by every metric imaginable.

 

[shadow]

This Leath/Pollard/Prohm/TJ thing is wetting my appetite for the CW book. Fascinating stuff. Sometimes, the off-court basketball stuff is more interesting than actual basketball.

Speaking of that, any chance there were concerns from Leath about TJ marrying a former student-athlete? I seem to remember a lot of gossip around that years ago which I thought was dumb, but who knows.

I don't have strong feelings about MBB especially when the football team is so good. It'd be nice to be good again, but I think Prohm needs at least one more year before we make a decision. I like TJ, but I am a little nervous after he lost in the 1st round of the conference tourney w/ the best player in SDSU history a year or two ago.
My wife and some of her friends want Fred back b/c he is cute so yea, I'm against a cute coach

 

[CyPunch]

I am not surprised. They have had a ton of transfers since he got there. Probably trying to remake the team to how he wants it to look. They have a ton of Freshman this year. I think in a couple years though he will have them looking good. Has a couple 4 star top 50 players signed for next year.

UNLV 2020-2021

Starters:
David Jenkins - 4th year junior, 20 ppg scorer at SDSU
Caleb Grill - Sophomore
Bryce Hamilton - Junior, returning All-conference player
Marvin Coleman - Junior, started 20 games last season
Mbacke Diong - Senior, 3rd year as a starter

Bench:
Nicquel Blake - True freshmen, solid MWC level recruit (#157 2020)
Moses Wood - 3rd year sophomore

 

[heitclone]

I wouldn't say I enjoyed that '17-'18 season, but there were some real bright moments in there; won a non-conference tournament down in Florida (albeit against so-so competition), but we also absolutely curb stomped ranked teams like Texas Tech and West Virginia in Hilton (and the West Virginia win was even without Nick Weiler-Babb). It was much more enjoyable than last season, which absolutely sucked by every metric imaginable.

That team was at least fun to watch and had a punchers chance most nights. Freshman Lard was one of my favorite players to watch in recent history. Plus Lindell and Donovan had the ability to keep you in games. The top 4/5 of that roster was solid, things just fell off a of a cliff after that.