Good Lord

[explorer]

But Jesus never did.

p.s. I could also argue that the Testaments were not arguing against homosexuality, but other problems that existed in society (as a matter of fact, I had a minister give a sermon on that very topic), on top of that, since the passages that are being quoted speak of a man sleeping with another man then why shouldn't a woman sleeping with another woman be considered okay? Are we only going to discriminate against gay men?

But Jesus also said He had not come to abolish the laws, but to fulfill them. There are a lot of sins Christ did not argue against specifically. In regards to the Leviticus passage, no there is not discrimination against only the gay man and not the gay woman. The context of the passage would indicate it would apply to both.

 

[isucyfan]

The biggest problem I have with homosexuality comes with my own responsibility to keep sin from my own life (through my kids). In this day and age, it (homosexual behavior) has become rampant in the media, and while I wouldn't go up to these people and declare them sinners I also don't want it in my face, and I sure as heck don't want my kids exposed to it. I compared it earlier with exposing my kids to swearing/violence/etc on tv. While it's not illegal, to me it's immoral/inappropriate and as a Christian parent it is my duty to protect my children from immorality as much as I can. I guess to summarize my point, I'm not going to tell a homosexual to change his ways, but when it's exposed to my kids I'm going to tell him to keep it to himself.

What happens if one of your children is one of the 10% of people that is homosexual in the world? Food for thought.

 

[wonkadog]

What happens if one of your children is one of the 10% of people that is homosexual in the world? Food for thought.

Are you sure you're not confusing "world" with "Iowa City"?

 

[explorer]

What happens if one of your children is one of the 10% of people that is homosexual in the world? Food for thought.

1. 10% of the population being homosexual is an exaggeration. Most sources I've read indicate 2 -3 %.

2. If your child is one that becomes homosexual: You love them with all your heart. You don't have to agreee with their lifestyle or the fact that they may be homosexual and can let it be known that you feel they are living a sinful life (just like a parent would if their children were adulterers, murderers, theives, liars, cheats, etc.). And no, I am not saying these sins are all on the same plane, just that they all are sins.

 

[spanny]

Are you sure you're not confusing "world" with "Iowa City"?

That number as well is not accurate it is at least 15-20%

 

[tigershoops31]

What happens if one of your children is one of the 10% of people that is homosexual in the world? Food for thought.

First of all I've killed a man for less than that little scenario you just came up with!
Secondly what I'd do is I'd find a nice burlap sack, fill it with rocks...wait til the cover of nightfall....

haha sorry I had to mess with you for a minute...seriously, I would of course love my child as I would love any of my children. I would do everything in my power to help them overcome it (as I would if my child was a liar or a thief). I realize it is a powerful thing to overcome, and I know that the only way to overcome it would be through Jesus' power. Just like with any child of mine, if I cannot help them find a relationship with Christ, I've not fully done my job as a parent anyway. At some point you have to leave the change up to God. In the meantime all I can do is keep loving my child and working on the sin in my own life, trying to be a godly example for him.

 

[isucyfan]

2. If your child is one that becomes homosexual: You love them with all your heart. You don't have to agreee with their lifestyle or the fact that they may be homosexual and can let it be known that you feel they are living a sinful life (just like a parent would if their children were adulterers, murderers, theives, liars, cheats, etc.). And no, I am not saying these sins are all on the same plane, just that they all are sins.

But would you want them to stop sinning, i.e. renounce their homosexuality even if this means they are miserable? What if your child says to you, "I didn't choose to be this way, it's just who I am." Do you want them to change the fiber of their being because it's sinful in your eyes? A murder, adulterer, thief, liar, or cheat can change his/her way. Being gay is not a choice.

 

[explorer]

Much of this is true - Jesus does tell sinners to "go and sin no more". However, I just have two points I wish to respectfully argue:

1. While Christ may or may not not have intended us to view homosexuality as "natural" or innate (although there are several instances of it in the animal kingdom), I do disagree that Christ wouldn't want us to accept it. Christ decreed that we love everyone. I personally believe (although it means nothing) that "encourage" would be better used in place of "accept" here.

2. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that homosexuality is not natural and is a sin. It is still only the Lord who sits in judgment - not me. Not anyone else. It seems to me that we should allow others to choose their own path and walk their own walk - it is not our job to cut off people's hands to prevent them from stealing, nor is it our job to deny them the chance to love whomever they choose. I don't think that this is "reveling" in sin - this is allowing others to develop their own personal relationship with God.

Several denominations (the United Methodist, Episcopal, and Presbyterian churches most notably) are having the same debate that we are. An interpretation of God's Word was used to justify slavery, to deny women the rights to vote, and was the impetus for the Crusades - all of these are items which we now see as clear-cut. I don't disagree with people feeling as they choose on this issue, and enjoy the posts here - I just wanted to point out in my original post that banning certain activities for certain groups leads to many negative things.

I feel that we can point out sinful acts and desires without judging the individual. I agree that it is difficult to separate and difficult to accomplish without becoming 'holier-than-thou' in your attitude. My problem with homosexuality is that a large portion of them want the population as a whole to revel in their lifestyle and choice. I really don't care what each individual does in their bedroom with other consenting adults, just don't throw it in my face at every turn. I feel as repugnant at toward adultery, rape, incest and others.

I also feel that if someone is homosexual, that does not warrant the church to not accept them as members of the congregation. I also feel that the church does not need to accept their lifestyle, and should condemn it, but should accept the individual, as we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Finally, I appreciate the respectful debate. I enjoy discussing/debating these issues with others.

 

[isucyfan]

First of all I've killed a man for less than that little scenario you just came up with!
Secondly what I'd do is I'd find a nice burlap sack, fill it with rocks...wait til the cover of nightfall....

Dang, Tiger, you had me goin' for a minute there. Sounds like you've thought this through, with the burlap sack of rocks and all.:laugh8kb:

 

[isucyfan]

I really don't care what each individual does in their bedroom with other consenting adults, just don't throw it in my face at every turn.

How do homosexuals "throw it in your face"? Don't you hold your wife's hand, or give a little kiss in public? If so aren't you throwing heterosexuality in people's faces? It's all love, baby!

 

[explorer]

But would you want them to stop sinning, i.e. renounce their homosexuality even if this means they are miserable? What if your child says to you, "I didn't choose to be this way, it's just who I am." Do you want them to change the fiber of their being because it's sinful in your eyes? A murder, adulterer, thief, liar, or cheat can change his/her way. Being gay is not a choice.

I respectfully disagree that being gay is not a choice. I have stated previous that I believe that people are born bent toward certain sinful desires. A homosexual can change their way the same as an adulterer could change theirs (I agree it may be difficult and take every fiber of their being, but it can and has been done). I know to well that it is EASY to sin and hard to refrain from sin.

I agree it would be difficult to handle that situation and I honestly don't know what I would do except to express my feelings on the issue and then continue to love them with all my heart. Following the Lord is not easy.

 

[isucyfan]

I respectfully disagree that being gay is not a choice.

I've never understood why anyone would choose to lead a lifestyle that at every turn, you are ostracized, expected to change for someone else, and prejudiced against, among other things. Do animals in the animal kingdom choose to be gay as well? I equally respectfully disagree...it's biology.

 

[explorer]

How do homosexuals "throw it in your face"? Don't you hold your wife's hand, or give a little kiss in public? If so aren't you throwing heterosexuality in people's faces? It's all love, baby!

They throw it in my face by their over the top antics and their expectation that everyone accept their lifestyle. They try to quiet people that disagree with them and they are trying to force public schools to educate our grade school children that their lifestyle is normal. That is how they throw it in my face.

 

[CyinCo]

I really wish this thread would end. Why does something like this get more views and posts than sports links. We should just stick with something we all agree upon on this site. Religion and politics aren't something people will ever agree upon.

More=Sports
Less=Religion

 

[cybsball20]

My problem with homosexuality is that a large portion of them want the population as a whole to revel in their lifestyle and choice. I really don't care what each individual does in their bedroom with other consenting adults, just don't throw it in my face at every turn. I feel as repugnant at toward adultery, rape, incest and others.

I don't really have a problem with anyone, but there are alot of people feel the same way about Christians...

 

[Cyclone62]

I've never understood why anyone would choose to lead a lifestyle that at every turn, you are ostracized, expected to change for someone else, and prejudiced against, among other things. Do animals in the animal kingdom choose to be gay as well? I equally respectfully disagree...it's biology.

I'm glad that one of us said that. I couldn't think of how to word it. Nice job doing work for me! :laugh8kb:

 

[chadm]

I really wish this thread would end. Why does something like this get more views and posts than sports links. We should just stick with something we all agree upon on this site. Religion and politics aren't something people will ever agree upon.

More=Sports
Less=Religion

I have only replied once in this thread.
My opinion on this discussion is that it has been very civil. Why not use the off topic option to discuss issues like this. If you don't like it do not click on it.

 

[tigershoops31]

I really wish this thread would end. Why does something like this get more views and posts than sports links. We should just stick with something we all agree upon on this site. Religion and politics aren't something people will ever agree upon.

More=Sports
Less=Religion

Exactly right, I would much rather read a thread where everybody agrees...

Tigershoops31: Chizek is da man!

CyinCo: Yeah he rules!

ISUFan22: I like him too!

Wonkadog: He is nice!

Angie: Everybody likes Gene!

thunderdave: Chizek is my favorite coach ever!

tycobb: You people are all $#(*@#&$*(@#$&*(&$@($&!


I love to debate sports too, but it's a dead time and this thread has been pretty interesting with a lot of disagreement and respect. If you hate that stuff, don't look at the OT section.

 

[wonkadog]

I have only replied once in this thread.
My opinion on this discussion is that it has been very civil. Why not use the off topic option to discuss issues like this. If you don't like it do not click on it.

I think it's great talking about this stuff...especially when things are "slow".

 

[CloneFan65]

This was said to the Pharisees who believed they were righteous and could judge the sin of others, believing they followed all of the laws to the letter, thus were free of sin. I have indicated previously that we are not to judge OTHERS. The quote you indicate is due to the Pharisee's being so self-righteous that they could not see their own sin.

This is exactly why I felt these verses were appropriate given your previous posts.