Iowa universities betting scandal

Pope

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How are they going to do that? This is one of those all or nothing situations as far as I see it. You are going to have bb players betting on football games, while along they are working out, dining or at least knowing those players. What is to stop inside information to get out and used for their advantage? If they want to bet, then stop playing the sport and they can bet all they want, but while they are playing, betting on games is illegal for them.
Easily monitored, they bet and get caught, they are finished playing college athletics.
It doesn't have to be that complicated. For example, the rule could be changed so that athletes may not wager on college games, period. However, they may wager on pro games (MLB, NFL, PGA, etc.).

If the NCAA can enforce the progress to degree rule (where the athlete must have completed a certain percentage of credits in their declared degree program), it could easily enforce a more nuanced wagering rule.
 
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FriendlySpartan

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It doesn't have to be that complicated. For example, the rule could be changed so that athletes may not wager on college games, period. However, they may wager on pro games (MLB, NFL, PGA, etc.).

If the NCAA can enforce the progress to degree rule (where the athlete must have completed a certain percentage of credits in their declared degree program), it could easily enforce a more nuanced wagering rule.
The NCAA enforces that by the universities reporting it. You want ISU to be responsible for the tracking and regulation of their athletes sports betting? That’s just asking for problems.
 

SolterraCyclone

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The NCAA enforces that by the universities reporting it. You want ISU to be responsible for the tracking and regulation of their athletes sports betting? That’s just asking for problems.
They don’t need to be actively monitored, they just need to investigate if there are reports of impropriety as compliance offices do today. Or an outside report comes in and the NCAA looks into it. Just like any other NCAA violation.

I think those that say it’s too hard to enforce a more nuanced rule have never placed a bet online before. Your betting history is saved and tracked by these services and are easily navigable within the interface.
 
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Jer

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I don't do betting so asking a dumb question.... I thought in Iowa to register for any of the betting apps you had to go to a physical casino to register. Or was that not applicable to things like FanDuel, DraftKings, etc?

Now that I write it, I'm guessing it's pretty obvious I didn't/don't understand the process that was required for.
 

FriendlySpartan

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They don’t need to be actively monitored, they just need to investigate if there are reports of impropriety as compliance offices do today. Or an outside report comes in and the NCAA looks into it. Just like any other NCAA violation.

I think those that say it’s too hard to enforce a more nuanced rule have never placed a bet online before. Your betting history is saved and tracked by these services and are easily navigable within the interface.
Not actively monitoring is just making it very easy to exploit. You made the comparison to credits which are monitored and reported.
 
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SolterraCyclone

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Not actively monitoring is just making it very easy to exploit. You made the comparison to credits which are monitored and reported.
Oh sorry. I didn’t make that comparison and I didn’t see the post you were responding to.

This would be legislated more like improper benefits, gambling currently, etc.
 
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egunzy

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I don't do betting so asking a dumb question.... I thought in Iowa to register for any of the betting apps you had to go to a physical casino to register. Or was that not applicable to things like FanDuel, DraftKings, etc?

Now that I write it, I'm guessing it's pretty obvious I didn't/don't understand the process that was required for.
That was the requirement for the first year (maybe 18 months) but that requirement was done away with a few years back and you can now register remotely with any book that has been approved by the State.
 
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Jer

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That was the requirement for the first year (maybe 18 months) but that requirement was done away with a few years back and you can now register remotely with any book that has been approved by the State.
Thank you - I thought I was remembering correctly, just didn't know it changed. Thanks!
 

MJ271

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Not actively monitoring is just making it very easy to exploit. You made the comparison to credits which are monitored and reported.
But the current rule isn't really actively monitored either, correct? If it were, then this wouldn't be happening at once, it would have happened as individual players make a bet that they aren't allowed to.

The professional leagues seem to have figured out how to let players bet on sports that aren't their own while still being able to enforce the rule against betting on your own sport. It doesn't seem crazy that the NCAA should be able to figure out how to do it.
 
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FriendlySpartan

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But the current rule isn't really actively monitored either, correct? If it were, then this wouldn't be happening at once, it would have happened as individual players make a bet that they aren't allowed to.

The professional leagues seem to have figured out how to let players bet on sports that aren't their own while still being able to enforce the rule against betting on your own sport. It doesn't seem crazy that the NCAA should be able to figure out how to do it.
I believe you are correct. Professional leagues run far smoother than the NCAA and have far fewer athletes to monitor. Right now the blanket rule of no sports betting is essentially all you need. Break it and get punished, no need to open up an insane can of worms for (almost) nothing but downside
 

MJ271

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I believe you are correct. Professional leagues run far smoother than the NCAA and have far fewer athletes to monitor. Right now the blanket rule of no sports betting is essentially all you need. Break it and get punished, no need to open up an insane can of worms for (almost) nothing but downside
But that doesn't answer my question. The current rule doesn't have active monitoring, right? Because it's not a blanket rule of no sports betting right now. In certain states, an athlete can have a FanDuel account and bet on MMA. That does not break NCAA rules. There's not much difference between being allowed to do that and being allowed to bet on other professional sports.
 

FriendlySpartan

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But that doesn't answer my question. The current rule doesn't have active monitoring, right? Because it's not a blanket rule of no sports betting right now. In certain states, an athlete can have a FanDuel account and bet on MMA. That does not break NCAA rules. There's not much difference between being allowed to do that and being allowed to bet on other professional sports.
I answered your question by saying I believe you are correct, don’t know for 100% but think that’s right.

Here’s the difference: betting on an MMA fight will 99.9% of the time not have any relation to the student athlete. Same for nascar or horse racing if we’re calling those sports as well. A college player betting on the NFL or NBA is perfect for collusion or inside information from friends and past teammates. I’m not even talking about throwing a game or point shaving just inside info. That is a massive can of worms.

Honestly why does everyone want this so bad? Is it just because of the ISU players? Legit this hasn’t come up anywhere as anything other then a bad idea then on here after the news broke.
 
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MJ271

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I answered your question by saying I believe you are correct, don’t know for 100% but think that’s right.

Here’s the difference: betting on an MMA fight will 99.9% of the time not have any relation to the student athlete. Same for nascar or horse racing if we’re calling those sports as well. A college player betting on the NFL or NBA is perfect for collusion or inside information from friends and past teammates. I’m not even talking about throwing a game or point shaving just inside info. That is a massive can of worms.

Honestly why does everyone want this so bad? Is it just because of the ISU players? Legit this hasn’t come up anywhere as anything other then a bad idea then on here after the news broke.
Sorry, I thought you saying that was in reference to something else. My point is that, since there isn't currently active monitoring, the situation right now is exactly the same as it would be if you expanded the sports that athletes could bet on, just a difference in which sports can be bet on. Right now, an NCAA investigation requires a report, then it requires looking at an athletes bets to see what they bet on. The only difference under my preferred scenario would be which sports an investigator would check.

I don't think the can of worms is as massive as you think it is. Professional athletes know a lot of people and there are a lot of ways that inside information could be passed along to any number of people, yet we don't use that as a reason to ban everyone from betting on sports. And athletes still have those possible connections to professional sports, yet laws don't outright ban retired athletes from betting on sports. Just as in the Alabama baseball coach situation, sportsbooks and gaming commissions have their own ways or contract with companies who have their own ways of identifying such situations where someone has insider information. They're pretty good at it, because they want to make money. I'm fine with letting those companies do what they're good at and keeping the NCAA out of trying to prevent insider info flowing between levels. Even if we do want restrictions on things like that, it's a lot more reasonable to ban a college athlete from betting on their own sport at the professional level than it is banning them from betting on completely unrelated sports.

For me at least, the reason this is just coming up now is because I had no idea what the NCAA rule was. If you would have asked me before this weekend, I would have guessed that athletes at minimum could bet on professional sports. Ultimately, it doesn't really impact my daily life--it's just another thing to argue about on message boards (although that's really a lot of what sports is, especially in the offseason). But also, my default is that people should have the freedom to do what they want unless there's a good reason for them to not. In this case, I don't think there's a good enough reason to prohibit college athletes specifically from most all sports betting, while allowing just a little bit. Either ban it all and create the regulatory structure to enforce that, or make the restrictions more reasonable, so a swimmer is allowed to bet on the Super Bowl if they want to.
 

FriendlySpartan

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Sorry, I thought you saying that was in reference to something else. My point is that, since there isn't currently active monitoring, the situation right now is exactly the same as it would be if you expanded the sports that athletes could bet on, just a difference in which sports can be bet on. Right now, an NCAA investigation requires a report, then it requires looking at an athletes bets to see what they bet on. The only difference under my preferred scenario would be which sports an investigator would check.

I don't think the can of worms is as massive as you think it is. Professional athletes know a lot of people and there are a lot of ways that inside information could be passed along to any number of people, yet we don't use that as a reason to ban everyone from betting on sports. And athletes still have those possible connections to professional sports, yet laws don't outright ban retired athletes from betting on sports. Just as in the Alabama baseball coach situation, sportsbooks and gaming commissions have their own ways or contract with companies who have their own ways of identifying such situations where someone has insider information. They're pretty good at it, because they want to make money. I'm fine with letting those companies do what they're good at and keeping the NCAA out of trying to prevent insider info flowing between levels. Even if we do want restrictions on things like that, it's a lot more reasonable to ban a college athlete from betting on their own sport at the professional level than it is banning them from betting on completely unrelated sports.

For me at least, the reason this is just coming up now is because I had no idea what the NCAA rule was. If you would have asked me before this weekend, I would have guessed that athletes at minimum could bet on professional sports. Ultimately, it doesn't really impact my daily life--it's just another thing to argue about on message boards (although that's really a lot of what sports is, especially in the offseason). But also, my default is that people should have the freedom to do what they want unless there's a good reason for them to not. In this case, I don't think there's a good enough reason to prohibit college athletes specifically from most all sports betting, while allowing just a little bit. Either ban it all and create the regulatory structure to enforce that, or make the restrictions more reasonable, so a swimmer is allowed to bet on the Super Bowl if they want to.
This is a great comment. For the record I would be more in favor of banning all of sports betting for student athletes. I just see this as only something that can go wrong with very little ways it can go right. As a sports better it’s a touch hypocritical but for the 1-2 years this would apply for student athletes I don’t see the point of lifting the ban.

Seriously appreciate your well thought out response though.
 
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MJ271

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This is a great comment. For the record I would be more in favor of banning all of sports betting for student athletes. I just see this as only something that can go wrong with very little ways it can go right. As a sports better it’s a touch hypocritical but for the 1-2 years this would apply for student athletes I don’t see the point of lifting the ban.

Seriously appreciate your well thought out response though.
Thanks. I do appreciate your perspective even though I disagree with it. I'd personally rank the possible regulation options something like
Athletes disallowed from betting on all of own sports and all own school competition >
Athletes disallowed from betting on any NCAA sports, but can bet on professional sports >
Athletes disallowed from betting at all >>>>>>>>
Current rule

Basically I think the current rule makes zero sense and is exactly the kind of weird in-between measure that you can expect the NCAA to poorly implement and enforce, then simultaneously over and under-react in punishment when they've mostly been ignoring it all this time.
 
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FriendlySpartan

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Thanks. I do appreciate your perspective even though I disagree with it. I'd personally rank the possible regulation options something like
Athletes disallowed from betting on all of own sports and all own school competition >
Athletes disallowed from betting on any NCAA sports, but can bet on professional sports >
Athletes disallowed from betting at all >>>>>>>>
Current rule

Basically I think the current rule makes zero sense and is exactly the kind of weird in-between measure that you can expect the NCAA to poorly implement and enforce, then simultaneously over and under-react in punishment when they've mostly been ignoring it all this time.
100% agree with the last paragraph except I want a full ban. Great discussion though!
 

isufbcurt

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Can someone explain to me just what is the upside for allowing these athletes to bet on sports? Generally they are treated like Kings and Queens, meals, tuition and boarding, they can now receive NIL, so we have to let them gamble also?

upside? Why does there have to be an upside? One of the arguments NIL and free transferring is that normal students can profit from their image and transfer to other schools. So why can't the same argument be used here?

Personally I think they should be allowed to bet on sports other than what they participate in. I don't see downside to that.
 

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Are people naming names? I'm too many pages behind to catch up.

 

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