MLB: Are advanced metrics ruining baseball?

[burn587]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot as a casual baseball fan who is having a hard time caring any more. I realize the timing of this is odd during the off-season but are advanced metrics and analytics ruining the game? I am by no means a purist, but when ESPN now shows OPS before batting average on their stat line you know things are screwy. Apparently the most important thing to determining a player’s value is their WAR which is a completely theoretical stat. Average, rbi and home runs used to be the holy trinity of stats, with OBP and RISP also being good indicators of success but it seems like the numbers are being twisted around so much that awful players like Adam Dunn had a 10+ year career.

I’m not saying this is the only reason for the decline of baseball (god awful pace, less home grown, elite talent) but it sure is making it a lot less accessible.

 

[Gunnerclone]

It always makes me laugh when people that you know are huge baseball guys say soccer is boring.

 

[thatguy]

Advanced Stats are ruining baseball because it is taking the fun out of the game. Everything now is based off of strike outs and HR's. There are no singles anymore, there are no stolen basis anymore, there are less great defensive plays because everyone is getting struck out. You don't score from second anymore, you rarely go 1st to 3rd, stuff like that.

If you play by the Metrics, (OBP, K/9, SLG) you will probably win more games, but it takes the exciting parts of the game away. They have essentially created a computer simulation of a baseball game, and its boring.

Plus the old white guys keeping kids from having fun has a huge effect on the game. Watch a Korean or Dominican League game and they are so much fun to watch. LET THEM FLIP BATS!

 

[Cardinal and Gold]

One good thing that has come from all of these analytics, in my eyes, has been the shift. I know a ton of people don't like it, but if baseball is a game you should be able to weigh odds and play to your advantage. Like in chess you try to think ahead and anticipate moves. That is what shifting is to me. You are basically looking a batter in the face and saying I dare you to push it down the line...if you can. But MLB is trying to take shifting and switching out of the game. As soon as batters get better at batting and the advantage isn't there anymore, then teams will stop the shift. I guess MLB thinks if it isn't done the traditional way, then it shouldn't be allowed. I'm a Brew Crew fan so of course this would be my opinion, haha.

 

[discydisc]

I'd say their TV blackout strategy and game day pricing is the real killer.

 

[MJ271]

I'll admit right away that my perspective is very much pro-analytics, so it is an admittedly biased point of view. But I don't really get how metrics can be "ruining the game." Are there really people who have stopped watching games on ESPN because they include OPS in a player's stat line?

As for the game basically being a computer simulation, I'd press back strongly on that, because baseball has a ridiculous amount of uncertainty and luck associated with it. Who wins an individual game is entirely up for grabs. Statistics shouldn't reduce the enjoyment coming from an individual game.

And for the focus on strikeouts and home runs, there is certainly room to appreciate the game from that perspective. Can you not appreciate a fantastic slider from a pitcher or a 102 MPH fastball to strike someone out? Or a home run that cleared the fence by 30 feet?

 

[cyclone101]

It's ruining the game for the casual fan. My grandparents LOVE baseball. From April through October they will watch baseball every single night. But I could ask them what OPS is and they wouldn't know nor care what it is. BA, RBI, and HR they know that language. If a guy has 100 RBI, 40 HR, and hitting .290+ the last week of September, they know that guy is a bad mofo. If you tell them his OPS is .950, they wouldn't have any idea whether that guy is good or not. Those stats keep casual fans away because it's too complicated.

MLB has also done a horrible job marketing their product. How in the heck do you currently have arguably the greatest baseball player OF ALL TIME currently in your league and his name not be a household name?

 

[Cardinal and Gold]

It's ruining the game for the casual fan. My grandparents LOVE baseball. From April through October they will watch baseball every single night. But I could ask them what OPS is and they wouldn't know nor care what it is. BA, RBI, and HR they know that language. If a guy has 100 RBI, 40 HR, and hitting .290+ the last week of September, they know that guy is a bad mofo. If you tell them his OPS is .950, they wouldn't have any idea whether that guy is good or not. Those stats keep casual fans away because it's too complicated.

MLB has also done a horrible job marketing their product. How in the heck do you currently have arguably the greatest baseball player OF ALL TIME currently in your league and his name not be a household name?

Ricky Vaughn?

 

[KnappShack]

Baseball is losing me. I won't even try to watch an American League game. I don't want to spend 4 - 5 hours watching baseball. I also don't want to throw down $75 a seat for maybe 6 1/2 innings. Around that time I'm looking for the door.

Started to tune out in 2017. Don't think I watched more than 20 innings last year. Listened some, but my interest is pretty low

 

[MJ271]

It's ruining the game for the casual fan. My grandparents LOVE baseball. From April through October they will watch baseball every single night. But I could ask them what OPS is and they wouldn't know nor care what it is. BA, RBI, and HR they know that language. If a guy has 100 RBI, 40 HR, and hitting .290+ the last week of September, they know that guy is a bad mofo. If you tell them his OPS is .950, they wouldn't have any idea whether that guy is good or not. Those stats keep casual fans away because it's too complicated.

MLB has also done a horrible job marketing their product. How in the heck do you currently have arguably the greatest baseball player OF ALL TIME currently in your league and his name not be a household name?

Possible unpopular opinion, but I'm not really sure baseball has casual fans. To be a fan of baseball, you have to be pretty committed to following a team or the sport. In that case, you either can figure out how to see the stats you're interested in, or you would be willing to learn about the new ones.
You mentioned your grandparents and them watching baseball every night. If they're still doing that, then the movement toward analytics isn't stopping them from being fans.

 

[jbindm]

It's ruining the game for the casual fan. My grandparents LOVE baseball. From April through October they will watch baseball every single night. But I could ask them what OPS is and they wouldn't know nor care what it is. BA, RBI, and HR they know that language. If a guy has 100 RBI, 40 HR, and hitting .290+ the last week of September, they know that guy is a bad mofo. If you tell them his OPS is .950, they wouldn't have any idea whether that guy is good or not. Those stats keep casual fans away because it's too complicated.

MLB has also done a horrible job marketing their product. How in the heck do you currently have arguably the greatest baseball player OF ALL TIME currently in your league and his name not be a household name?

He has to want it. As I understand it Mike Trout (assuming that's who you're talking about) just doesn't care much about his brand.

I don't think advanced metrics are hurting baseball. Like another poster said, if someone is a baseball fan they're not going to be driven away by talking heads yammering on about WAR and WIP and whatever else.

The issue is in the marketing and accessibility of the game. MLB does not make much of an effort to be fan and viewer friendly. And it's just my opinion, but their regular season is entirely too long. The NBA suffers from the same problem.

 

[cyclone101]

Possible unpopular opinion, but I'm not really sure baseball has casual fans. To be a fan of baseball, you have to be pretty committed to following a team or the sport. In that case, you either can figure out how to see the stats you're interested in, or you would be willing to learn about the new ones.
You mentioned your grandparents and them watching baseball every night. If they're still doing that, then the movement toward analytics isn't stopping them from being fans.

I agree. But if the concern is that baseball is dying, your goal is to attract new fans, right? IDK whether it is or not, maybe it isn't, just my opinion that people see the WAR and OPS and OPS+ getting thrown around and it's too much (strictly speaking about people trying to get into baseball, those that are hooked aren't going anywhere).

He has to want it. As I understand it Mike Trout (assuming that's who you're talking about) just doesn't care much about his brand.

I don't think advanced metrics are hurting baseball. Like another poster said, if someone is a baseball fan they're not going to be driven away by talking heads yammering on about WAR and WIP and whatever else.

The issue is in the marketing and accessibility of the game. MLB does not make much of an effort to be fan and viewer friendly. And it's just my opinion, but their regular season is entirely too long. The NBA suffers from the same problem.

But if you're MLB, why would you care what Trout wants. He works for you, use him to draw attention to your brand. I get it, Mike is as humble as they come, but they could do more to use him to grow their brand. I mean, they can't do less... they are already doing nothing.

As far as the metrics go, I agree, fans that are already fans aren't going anywhere, the concern here is gaining new fans like I said above. Again, this is just my opinion and I don't think it is the primary reason at all, just that it's contributing (imo). I disagree on the NBA, they are killing it with marketing. NBA popularity is probably as high as it's ever been. Whatever they're doing, they need to keep doing it.

 

[cyfanatic13]

Possible unpopular opinion, but I'm not really sure baseball has casual fans. To be a fan of baseball, you have to be pretty committed to following a team or the sport. In that case, you either can figure out how to see the stats you're interested in, or you would be willing to learn about the new ones.
You mentioned your grandparents and them watching baseball every night. If they're still doing that, then the movement toward analytics isn't stopping them from being fans.

I'd agree with this. Baseball was my favorite sport growing up, and I have probably watched or listened to over 80% of Cubs games dating back to 2014 without thinking a thing of it. After ISU the Cubs are my next favorite team. But put a random baseball game on and I get so bored without a rooting interest.

One thing that helped me become a little more of a fan of the game in general was playing fantasy baseball this last summer. I paid attention to more teams than I normally would and would find myself tuning into some west coast games while going to bed.

As far as analytics go, I don't think it's ruining baseball by any stretch. These things go in cycles

 

[cyfanatic13]

I agree. But if the concern is that baseball is dying, your goal is to attract new fans, right? IDK whether it is or not, maybe it isn't, just my opinion that people see the WAR and OPS and OPS+ getting thrown around and it's too much (strictly speaking about people trying to get into baseball, those that are hooked aren't going anywhere).

But if you're MLB, why would you care what Trout wants. He works for you, use him to draw attention to your brand. I get it, Mike is as humble as they come, but they could do more to use him to grow their brand. I mean, they can't do less... they are already doing nothing.

As far as the metrics go, I agree, fans that are already fans aren't going anywhere, the concern here is gaining new fans like I said above. Again, this is just my opinion and I don't think it is the primary reason at all, just that it's contributing (imo). I disagree on the NBA, they are killing it with marketing. NBA popularity is probably as high as it's ever been. Whatever they're doing, they need to keep doing it.

I think if Trout played on a better team he'd probably be more popular. Dude's only been in one postseason in his career. Hard to market someone when they are on an irrelevant team

 

[CyGuy5]

IMO no. I actually enjoy the advanced metrics, but I would consider myself more of a hardcore fan. I think stats like WAR etc add another level of complexity and strategy to the game

 

[MJ271]

I agree. But if the concern is that baseball is dying, your goal is to attract new fans, right? IDK whether it is or not, maybe it isn't, just my opinion that people see the WAR and OPS and OPS+ getting thrown around and it's too much (strictly speaking about people trying to get into baseball, those that are hooked aren't going anywhere).

That's not a bad point, I just think it doesn't really have that big of an effect. It's just so much easier for fans to get interested in sports that require way less commitment than baseball. Even looking at kids. A lot of kids from my hometown played little league baseball, but by high school were burned out and didn't want to spend their summer playing baseball. The easiest way to attract new fans is to get them interested from a young age, and baseball just doesn't have the appeal that basketball and football do.

 

[cyclone101]

I think if Trout played on a better team he'd probably be more popular. Dude's only been in one postseason in his career. Hard to market someone when they are on an irrelevant team

That's very true but still does not address why MLB has done literally NOTHING to market their brand. I'm no marketing guru but can they seriously not figure something out?

 

[jbindm]

I agree. But if the concern is that baseball is dying, your goal is to attract new fans, right? IDK whether it is or not, maybe it isn't, just my opinion that people see the WAR and OPS and OPS+ getting thrown around and it's too much (strictly speaking about people trying to get into baseball, those that are hooked aren't going anywhere).

But if you're MLB, why would you care what Trout wants. He works for you, use him to draw attention to your brand. I get it, Mike is as humble as they come, but they could do more to use him to grow their brand. I mean, they can't do less... they are already doing nothing.

As far as the metrics go, I agree, fans that are already fans aren't going anywhere, the concern here is gaining new fans like I said above. Again, this is just my opinion and I don't think it is the primary reason at all, just that it's contributing (imo). I disagree on the NBA, they are killing it with marketing. NBA popularity is probably as high as it's ever been. Whatever they're doing, they need to keep doing it.

I just meant the regular season is too long for the NBA. From a marketing perspective, they're doing it better than anyone by making it a star driven league.

That's a fair point about attracting new fans. It would be hard to have someone who isn't a fan sit down and watch an entire nine inning game - the pace of play is excruciatingly slow, there are long periods where not much of anything interesting happens unless you know what you're looking for, and good luck walking them through the intricacies of the advanced stats. It's just a tough sport to embrace.

 

[cyclone101]

I just meant the regular season is too long for the NBA. From a marketing perspective, they're doing it better than anyone by making it a star driven league.

That's a fair point about attracting new fans. It would be hard to have someone who isn't a fan sit down and watch an entire nine inning game - the pace of play is excruciatingly slow, there are long periods where not much of anything interesting happens unless you know what you're looking for, and good luck walking them through the intricacies of the advanced stats. It's just a tough sport to embrace.

I gotcha. Yeah the NBA is killing it. And I understand the NBA and MLB aren't apples to apples. MLB won't be able to just copy whatever NBA is doing but jesus, MLB can't find their ass with both hands.

 

[cyfanatic13]

That's very true but still does not address why MLB has done literally NOTHING to market their brand. I'm no marketing guru but can they seriously not figure something out?

I'm with ya. A bigger MLB problem to me is their blackout rules. I would probably have MLB TV in a heartbeat if I could watch Cubs games on there. Instead I'll just continue to stream every game I have to on Reddit and deal with ****** quality from time to time