Arrest reported in ISU hit and run death

[cdnlngld]

Here is what we know for a fact:
The driver ran a flashing yellow light.
The driver hit a pedestrian in a cross walk.

What I also know is that basic traffic laws say that a flashing yellow light for a left turn arrow is a yield, which means yield to oncoming traffic AND pedestrians.

I guess I am assuming that the training for Cy-ride drivers already includes basic driving skills like this.

I am making some assumptions, but given what we know, I'd like to know what safety procedures could be implemented. There are no safety procedures anywhere that can prevent all human error. Its just impossible.

With just the limited amount of info we know, there are a number of root causes that could be investigated and improved upon by simple brainstorming.

Reevaluate the buss' blind spots- better mirrors, blind spot cameras, potential to develop blind spot monitors/sensors.

evaluate equipment conditions- were the wipers good, was there something wrong with the glass/not clean? reevaluate maintenance requirements to include replacing wipers more frequently, use rain-ex on windows, clean them every xx.x hours of operation.

evaluate external conditions that cannot be controlled- weather too dark/rain too hard. Implement a policy that states operators are not allowed to make left/right hand turns on flashing yellow lights, or at the very least must make a full stop before making left/right hand turns.

spend more time in driver training, with this specific incident as a case study for operators.

As others have stated this particular intersection can be a huge problem and has had other close calls in the past- modify the route so that a turn can be made a different intersection with better clearances/controls.

The city could look at reordering the lights so that the ped. crossing is not simultaneous with trafic turning.

some more extreme solutions could be- adding ped. crossing gates to block ped. crossing and modify the lighting sequence to allow safer ped. crossing and lift the gates.

perhaps the ped. was looking at her phone and not paying much attention. City ordinance against walking and texting.

Minimize points along Lincoln way for ped. crossing. funnel all crossing ped. traffic to an elevated walk way or safer intersection.

You see, 15 minutes of brainstorming, and already a number of possible solutions. Imagine what a safety/risk management/civil engineer could do with their specialized training.......

The point is, if this action can happen once it can surely happen again and it becomes the company's(cy rides) responsibility to reduce the chance that this type of accident does not happen again. To sit there and say, well there is just nothing we can do to reduce the risk is just complacency and will only insure that it WILL happen again. Just look at the DSM metro bus company a couple of years ago.

 

[IAStubborn]

No I didn't. A driver made a human error. No safety procedure can prevent that human error. I challenge you to tell me what kind of safety procedure could prevent that.

Dimming the interior lights when outside viability is difficult or perhaps suspending routes while visibility is nearly impossible (massive downpour). Just a couple off the top of my head.

 

[IAStubborn]

I think the only hiccup to this is that there an article (I think Ames Trib) where an investigator states that he would have driven by the scene (where police were present) as he continued his route (so you'd assume whatever make him stop earlier to check the outside of the bus may cause him to rethink that)....and it says his bus was pulled from rotation that morning and was told why (police were investigating). In terms of timing of his suspicion, the same article said the police spoke with those close to him that the next day he texted he thought he may have hit her.

I just say that as i agree...I've never experience this type of "processing" he was going through so I cannot jump into his head and understand the "why"...but I do know a county attorney would need facts or reasons from the police to move forward with charges.

Legally I just don't think that matters. Once he left the scene it becomes a question of "did he reasonably know" at the time. Whether he pieced it togethor later really isn't really relevant to the question of whether he fled the scene knowing or not. Once he saw police there and pieced it togethor the smartest move would be to go see a lawyer and explain that you suspect it at have been you so they can advise you on the best way to come forward without incriminating yourself. He may have looked at the bus and saw no damage and so assumed he just hit a pothole and didn't know why the police were at that corner. Who knows.

 

[clone52]

money?

seriously though, I have no idea what they'd be asking for, dollar-wise. Is that what you meant?

There is no need for a lawsuit to cover expenses as the insurance would cover that. I guess they could do a wrongful death lawsuit, but I don't know if they'd win that. It'd be a slam dunk of Cy-ride hired unqualified drivers or if they could prove that their training was sub-par or something like that. However, if Cy-ride is covered in all those areas, I don't think they could prove wrongful death.

 

[clone52]

Again, these are not my requests. Im sure Cy-ride does a thorough job of training. However, their insurance company is going to force them to make changes if they have to dish out money for a lawsuit. Thats just how it goes.

The insurance company would force them to review things, but if the insurance company deems their current practices are sufficient, they're not going to force them to change something if it doesn't provide any benefit.

 

[IAStubborn]

There is no need for a lawsuit to cover expenses as the insurance would cover that. I guess they could do a wrongful death lawsuit, but I don't know if they'd win that. It'd be a slam dunk of Cy-ride hired unqualified drivers or if they could prove that their training was sub-par or something like that. However, if Cy-ride is covered in all those areas, I don't think they could prove wrongful death.

This isn't correct. Often insurers require filing of a suit to pay and yes they would easily win a wrongful death suit.

 

[clone52]

Dimming the interior lights when outside viability is difficult or perhaps suspending routes while visibility is nearly impossible (massive downpour). Just a couple off the top of my head.

I would imagine that with bus lines operating across the country and presumably many people have been killed by busses. I would also presume that insurance companies have a standard set of guidelines required for bus operators. Assuming those guidelines are followed by Cy-ride, I don't know that there is anything so unusual about this situation that would be completely new in the bus driving world.

For example, if suspending routes during massive downpours is required by the insurance company,it would be required across the country. Its not like an insurance company would put that requirement on Cy-ride and not on every other but company out there. This also probably isn't the first time a bus hit someone in a downpour.

Now its possible that Cy-ride violated some insurance policy rule and if so, they would open themselves up to a wrongful death lawsuit.

 

[clone52]

This isn't correct. Often insurers require filing of a suit to pay and yes they would easily win a wrongful death suit.

So if I get in a car accident with another person and other person is at fault, I would be expected to file a lawsuit in order for their insurance company to cover medical expenses?

In situations I've been aware of, I've never heard of a lawsuit being needed if the person at fault is clear.

I'm no legal expert, but reading on this site, they may have a case for wrongful death.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/wrongful-death-claims-overview-30141.html
Persons, companies, and governmental agencies can be legally at fault for acting negligently (failing to act as a reasonable person would have acted) and for acting intentionally.

Assuming it was not intentional, they'd have to show the driver/company was at fault for acting negligently (failing to act as a reasonable person would have acted). Now, if the driver had stopped right away, I don't think they'd have a case. In my opinion, with bad visibility, this could have happened to a reasonable person driving a bus or a car. Terrible tragedy, yes, but I wouldn't say it was acting negligently.

Now lets say that the driver didn't realize he hit someone right away, but later, when he realized he might have done it turned himself in. If that had happened, I'd say no wrongful death. Again, in my opinion, the visibility could have been a reasonable cause and a reasonable person, when they realized what happened, would turn themselves in.

In this actual case, the driver didn't turn himself in when he realized he may have been involved. That possibly opens up a wrongful death lawsuit. Definitely for the driver, but what about the company? In my opinion, it would boil down to showing that the driver was negligent while performing his job for the company. In my opinion, the real negligence occurs when the driver realizes he was involved and doesn't turn himself in. If the company can show that that realization does not occur until after the driver is off the clock, is the company liable?

 

[BikeSkiClone]

The city could look at reordering the lights so that the ped. crossing is not simultaneous with trafic turning.

I wish more intersections were like this. I live in a college town of about 20k (30k during school sessions) and at all of the major intersections in pedestrian-heavy areas (mainly downtown) with crosswalks, there is NO vehicular traffic movement when the "Walk" signal is given. All 4 sides of the intersection can be crossed by pedestrians at the same time, and traffic waits the 30 seconds for the crosswalk to signal "Stop". Pedestrians have to activate the crosswalk button, so traffic isn't waiting when there's nobody crossing. I have to cross the main intersection in town on my walk to/from campus (I'd equate it to crossing Lincoln Way at Welch or Lincoln Way by the MU/Lake LaVerne) and it is awesome not having to worry about cars making left or right hand turns from any direction while I'm crossing. I still make eye contact with drivers to make sure they won't make a right on red or anything, but the safety is great.

 

[clone52]

So if I get in a car accident with another person and other person is at fault, I would be expected to file a lawsuit in order for their insurance company to cover medical expenses?

In situations I've been aware of, I've never heard of a lawsuit being needed if the person at fault is clear.

I'm no legal expert, but reading on this site, they may have a case for wrongful death.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/wrongful-death-claims-overview-30141.html
Persons, companies, and governmental agencies can be legally at fault for acting negligently (failing to act as a reasonable person would have acted) and for acting intentionally.

Assuming it was not intentional, they'd have to show the driver/company was at fault for acting negligently (failing to act as a reasonable person would have acted). Now, if the driver had stopped right away, I don't think they'd have a case. In my opinion, with bad visibility, this could have happened to a reasonable person driving a bus or a car. Terrible tragedy, yes, but I wouldn't say it was acting negligently.

Now lets say that the driver didn't realize he hit someone right away, but later, when he realized he might have done it turned himself in. If that had happened, I'd say no wrongful death. Again, in my opinion, the visibility could have been a reasonable cause and a reasonable person, when they realized what happened, would turn themselves in.

In this actual case, the driver didn't turn himself in when he realized he may have been involved. That possibly opens up a wrongful death lawsuit. Definitely for the driver, but what about the company? In my opinion, it would boil down to showing that the driver was negligent while performing his job for the company. In my opinion, the real negligence occurs when the driver realizes he was involved and doesn't turn himself in. If the company can show that that realization does not occur until after the driver is off the clock, is the company liable?

I'm sure there are plenty of cases like this, so to lawyers, its probably pretty obvious what can happen here.

 

[Wiscloneson]

And? Was the driver not properly trained? Did he have previous complaints brought up about him? Was the bus unsafe somehow?

Why do I suspect legal liability is but one of a long list of things you don't understand..

 

[3TrueFans]

Why do I suspect legal liability is but one of a long list of things you don't understand..

I wonder who you used to be before you got banned and created this username?

 

[CapnCy]

Legally I just don't think that matters. Once he left the scene it becomes a question of "did he reasonably know" at the time. Whether he pieced it togethor later really isn't really relevant to the question of whether he fled the scene knowing or not. Once he saw police there and pieced it togethor the smartest move would be to go see a lawyer and explain that you suspect it at have been you so they can advise you on the best way to come forward without incriminating yourself. He may have looked at the bus and saw no damage and so assumed he just hit a pothole and didn't know why the police were at that corner. Who knows.

Agreed...my post was just showing the other poster made a comment and I shared there was info that showed when he may have reasonably known, but I agree 100% the charges could have still been there, but had he went right away to an attorney or even to his supervisors (as I'd assume they would have pretty standard processes for reporting concerns, accidents, etc) he'd have data that would probably help him out.

"Boss, I am not sure what may have happened....but I thought I heard something....got out of the bus later and didn't notice anything when I checked...but then noticed some police on my route...and then when you took my bus off route to review video....well, i just wanted to let you know this happened..I don't know what it means....."

The story is WAY different....would there even be charges if that afternoon he came forward? Maybe not....maybe.

 

[JackCyclone]

Can't help but feel bad for the kid. Should he have come forward as soon as possible? absolutely. But it was an accident and he has to live with it for the rest of his life. This is just a horrible situation for everyone involved.

We don't know all the details and he shouldn't be made out to be an awful horrible person. I'm sure he is a really nice kid who was involved in an accident and panicked.

 

[Cycsk]

So, imagine you are a friend of this guy, and he tells you that he may be the one who hit the student, what do you do?

 

[chuckd4735]

So, imagine you are a friend of this guy, and he tells you that he may be the one who hit the student, what do you do?

I would immediately find a lawyer, and take both my friend and I there. If he refused to go, I would let him know he is an idiot, and I would be doing whatever the lawyer told me was in my best interest.

 

[3TrueFans]

So, imagine you are a friend of this guy, and he tells you that he may be the one who hit the student, what do you do?

Snitches get stitches.

But seriously I'd probably try to convince him that he needed to tell the police what he knew or to find a lawyer, that it wouldn't take long for the finger to point to him and it'd be better for him if he went in on his own.

 

[CycloneErik]

Snitches get stitches.

But seriously I'd probably try to convince him that he needed to tell the police what he knew or to find a lawyer, that it wouldn't take long for the finger to point to him and it'd be better for him if he went in on his own.

That's what I think I would do, and not surprisingly, my phone rarely rings.

 

[3TrueFans]

That's what I think I would do, and not surprisingly, my phone rarely rings.

Next time I commit a felony I'll PM you first for advice.

 

[CycloneErik]

Next time I commit a felony I'll PM you first for advice.

Finally!