Also, when I watch about 32 NFL teams this weekend, 0 of them will be using a 3 man front. Hard to say it’s a great system when NFL teams don’t use itHave never been a fan of the 3-3-5 formation.
I feel like there was a time when the 3-3-5 worked because it was unique, but seems like teams have adjusted and identified its weaknesses. Or maybe teams with certain playing styles and strengths can more-easily take advantage of the 3-3-5.
- IMO it is a finesse defense (bend/don't break) and LB/DB's have to be overly aggressive to be a solid run-stopping defense.
- Campbell talks about being a physical team and I don't feel a 3 man defensive line meets that mantra.
- An aggressive pass-rush is the best pass defense. And creates negative yardage plays.
- A 3 man rush leaves wide passing lanes for the QB to throw.
- Using a spy is a waste of a defender. He's not rushing the passer AND too shallow to be in pass defense against even shallow crossing routes.
- Defensive lineman who are 6'4"+ and 250+ lbs are more physical and better trained to be pass rushers than LB's ad DB's.
- It is not a blitz to send 3 DL and 1 LB/DB against 5 OL and RB and maybe TE.
- Our OL has struggled for much of Campbell's tenure. Does playing a 3 man d-line impact the development of a quality OL?
I would love for ISU to adopt a 4-2-5. It would allow ISU to be more physical along the line-of-scrimmage AND still allow one of the safeties to be strong at run support.
Absolutely not true. Just for starters, the Ravens, Falcons, Dolphins, Packers, Bears and others have a 3 man front as their base. Other teams use it at times.Also, when I watch about 32 NFL teams this weekend, 0 of them will be using a 3 man front. Hard to say it’s a great system when NFL teams don’t use it
Other teams would still be able to get behind us like all day yesterdayI think we should go 1-5-5. Keep it all in front. Let the other team beat itself.
I am no great football mind. What I observe.Understand we have a young D but I’m fed up our 3-deep safety look. Can we please make an adjustment ?!?!
We have allowed 35 and 36 points in past two games.
Zero sacks
Rarely any pressures
Short yardage stack the box!
Absolutely not true. Just for starters, the Ravens, Falcons, Dolphins, Packers, Bears and others have a 3 man front as their base. Other teams use it at times.
I would say at least 30% or more defensive snaps use a three man front. Teams might walk another up to the LoS, but that flexibility to do that, and do it with different guys and locations is exactly why teams do it.
It’s not that hard to have a good offense with a talent disadvantage like ISU typically has. It’s extremely hard to have a good defense with a talent disadvantage. You are having to read, react and close space on offensive players that know where they are going, and scheme can only get you so far. What Heacock has achieved with this defense vs its talent over the years, this year included, is miraculous. If anyone can show me a unit in P5 football that has overperformed to its talent over the past 7 years I’d be shocked.Our defense had some glitches this season. Heacock will make some adjustments in the off-season. The defense has done way too much good stuff the last few seasons. Chucking it out now because of a snow game and absolutely meaningless bowl game against a hyped up team in their home stadium is crazy.
Agree, but we need to bring in more DT and DE, something ISU has a problem with. It also might help our O-line to practice against a 4 man line and blitzing package.Have never been a fan of the 3-3-5 formation.
I feel like there was a time when the 3-3-5 worked because it was unique, but seems like teams have adjusted and identified its weaknesses. Or maybe teams with certain playing styles and strengths can more-easily take advantage of the 3-3-5.
- IMO it is a finesse defense (bend/don't break) and LB/DB's have to be overly aggressive to be a solid run-stopping defense.
- Campbell talks about being a physical team and I don't feel a 3 man defensive line meets that mantra.
- An aggressive pass-rush is the best pass defense. And creates negative yardage plays.
- A 3 man rush leaves wide passing lanes for the QB to throw.
- Using a spy is a waste of a defender. He's not rushing the passer AND too shallow to be in pass defense against even shallow crossing routes.
- Defensive lineman who are 6'4"+ and 250+ lbs are more physical and better trained to be pass rushers than LB's ad DB's.
- It is not a blitz to send 3 DL and 1 LB/DB against 5 OL and RB and maybe TE.
- Our OL has struggled for much of Campbell's tenure. Does playing a 3 man d-line impact the development of a quality OL?
I would love for ISU to adopt a 4-2-5. It would allow ISU to be more physical along the line-of-scrimmage AND still allow one of the safeties to be strong at run support.
Also, when I watch about 32 NFL teams this weekend, 0 of them will be using a 3 man front. Hard to say it’s a great system when NFL teams don’t use it
But you are basically asking to change the defense to something that the 3-3-5 CAN do while limiting flexibility. For example, shift the DE and Nose to 4 man front DT positioning and put a LB like Bacon on the LoS? They can and will do that. He doesn’t have his hand in the ground, but that’s the only difference. You are basically advocating for using the same 6 guys they’d use in the 3-3 stack, but lock them into fewer looks they can bring.IMO there was a time when it was a great system for ISU. Because it was unique and the Paul Rhoads coaching staff was horrible at recruiting DL. But times have changed, more college teams are running the 3-3-5 and Matt Campbell's staff does a MUCH better job of recruiting DL. In regard to the former, I was taken back by Matt Campbell's quote in Connor Ferg's CF article “They’ve played this defense and (have) coaches that have played against this defense,” That seems like a glaring weekness of the scheme. Now we all know, Matt Campbell isn't going to throw his players under the bus and yesterday's passion/energy on defense seemed mediocre.
But looking at next years roster, I feel like we have the players to run a 4-2-5 without much last minutes recruiting over the spring. The guys have played snaps at ISU.
DT: Orange, Singleton, Onyedim & Hawk (Onyedim could flex between DT/DE)
DE: Petersen, Jones, Ezeogu, Same, Lovett, Bacon, Snyder (Portal)
LB: Sadowsky, McLaughlin, Willich, Ellis, Ebel, Freyler???
With a offseason with S&C staff, could Trent Jones move inside, allowing Enyedim to be full-time DE. Also if we only need 2 LB's I moved Lovett and Bacon to DE as they both are bigger and IMO Bacon has a great motor to be a pass rushing DE aka Bailey, Shawn Moorehead (McDonald was in his own stratosphere).
On the back-end, we have some really solid players returning in Cooper, Freyler, Verdon and Purchase. To get best players on the field, would the staff consider moving Freyler to LB? I realize that is pretty drastic, but he's 6'2" and 220lbs and cover skills. Myles Purchase was a bit of an enigma this year- some games great, others not so much. Would he be better served playing safety? So a DB group of:
CB: Porter, Williams
S: Purchase, Verdon, Cooper, Patton, Surges, Howard, James
That leaves a CB group pretty thin.
They finished 3rd in scoring Defense in the Big 12, they played 4 of the top 20 scoring offenses in the country.Understand we have a young D but I’m fed up our 3-deep safety look. Can we please make an adjustment ?!?!
We have allowed 35 and 36 points in past two games.
Zero sacks
Rarely any pressures
Short yardage stack the box!
Agree, one of the great things is that it allows to get those DE/DT tweeners that are undervalued in a 4 man front. It also allows ISU to have only one clogged like Lima or Orange, as those guys are in high demand. Lastly if you run a 4 man front your DEs have to be elite pass rushers. Also guys that are in high demand.I think any discussion of the 3-3-5 is a little too armchair-quarterbacky. It is a great scheme for the players we are able to get here. We do not and will never consistently have a d line that can stand up a quality o line and stuff the run, so we concede a 2 yard run and send safeties and LBs from places the O line can't reach. I was skeptical at first, but the proof is in the pudding, it's really effective at slowing the run, and most teams outside of Iowa aren't patient enough to keep chipping away on the ground.
We also don't have the d line to get pressure, whether sending 3 or 4. When we do bring 4 or 5, having 2 of them standing up and able to get downhill should in theory make them harder to block, our LBs just aren't very good yet. Pass rush has been a problem all year, and patient qbs will find plenty of gaps, but having 1 more slower player getting swallowed up by the O line isn't going to change that. I was actually impressed and surprised yesterday that we were much more aggressive than usual blitzing in the first quarter. Every 3rd down, we brought pressure. And to his credit Henigan threw some absolute dimes on a couple deep shots. Most quality WRs have a skill and size, and sometimes speed advantage on most CBs. If we bring pressure we have to rely on the qb not having time to make a good decision or throw. With or without pressure we were not affecting the qb much yesterday, and he was experienced enough to find his answers. We aren't going to play too many qbs with that level of experience and accuracy. At some point you just have to tip your cap.
The 3-3-5 isn't going away, nor should it. It uses an offenses aggressive tendencies against itself and forces teams to play at our pace. We do need TO and another player or 2 to improve at generating pressure.