Gonzaga to join the Big 12?

[isucy86]

Not sure an 18 team conference makes scheduling sense unless there is a division approach to reduce travel. Gonzaga being in a division with recent West adds works nicely.

Unbalanced divisions have been used in professional sports before, so maybe a 17 team conference playing 18 or 20 games games sense with divisions of: 6/6/5 or 5/4/4/4. The latter format would be a great 20 game schedule where playing every team in your division twice and other teams once:

West (6): Gonzaga, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU, Colorado
Plains (5): Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, West Virginia, Cincinnati
South (5): Houston, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Okie State

or

West (5): Gonzaga, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU
Plains (4): Colorado, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State
Texas (4): Houston, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech
East (4): Okie State, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Central Florida



With a conference tournament and fact tournament is 64 teams, I don't feel it is important for divisions to be balanced.

 

[Nor'easter]

The ACC seems less stable every day (or is just me?) I'd just wait for them to collapse, there are some decent basketball teams that would be great travel partners for Cincinnati and west virginia

 

[HFCS]

The ACC seems less stable every day (or is just me?) I'd just wait for them to collapse, there are some decent basketball teams that would be great travel partners for Cincinnati and west virginia

The 5 mountain schools we just added are a geographic block and not that far from the core schools.

Then you add another block of 3-5 ACC basketball-centric schools like Louisville, Pitt, NC State, UConn, etc if you need or want to keep expanding. Didn't even think of Syracuse right away, they were practically a blue blood for awhile.

Hope this Gonzaga stuff is just smoke, I don't see how it makes sense if UConn was really on the table.

 

[RoseClone]

The ACC seems less stable every day (or is just me?) I'd just wait for them to collapse, there are some decent basketball teams that would be great travel partners for Cincinnati and west virginia

I can see that, but waiting can be risky too. I'm glad I'm not the one making these decisions.

 

[Cyforce]

They don't play football. That's really not a fair shake. There's not much they can do about their geography or historical league affiliation.

Dan Monson had them in the Elite 8 before Few got the job.

It's impossible to go to 9 consecutive second weekends of the tournament and not be an elite program.

Understand but if they were in a power conference they wouldn't of received the beneficial seeding that paved the way to 9 consecutive sweet 16s.

 

[MJ271]

Gonzaga beats up on a bunch of weak teams in their conference every year and gets a favorable NCAA seed which allows them to usually get past the first weekend.

If Gonzaga played a Big 12 conference schedule, I guarantee their record wouldn't be nearly as glossy (e.g., this year's Cincinnati, UCF, Houston, and BYU football records) and their tournament seed wouldn't be as high.

Would they elevate an already tough Big 12 basketball conference? Yes, for the short term, but I'm not as sure about the long term. Also, admitting a non-football school into the league makes things messy.

I agree a bit with your long-term questions, because Few retiring will definitely be a big deal. But I do think that being in the Big 12 can elevate them to continue to compete. (Look at TCU basketball, for example.)

But I do want to dispute the notion of Gonzaga getting more favorable seeds than they otherwise should. According to this article, plus adding in the 2023 tournament, Gonzaga has overperformed its seed line 6 times, underperformed it 6 times, and performed to it 10 times. So that would point to them getting seeded pretty much as they should have been, on average. Also, getting past the first weekend is not a small deal, even as a top 2-3 seed. Gonzaga's streak of 8 straight years making the Sweet Sixteen is the fourth longest in history, and is one of only 5 programs that have active multi-year streaks (Houston is the next closest, with 4 straight - Link). Yes, if they played in the Big 12 their record wouldn't be as good. But their wins would also be higher quality.

 

[Nor'easter]

The 5 mountain schools we just added are a geographic block and not that far from the core schools.

Then you add another block of 3-5 ACC basketball-centric schools like Louisville, Pitt, NC State, UConn, etc if you need or want to keep expanding. Didn't even think of Syracuse right away, they were practically a blue blood for awhile.

Hope this Gonzaga stuff is just smoke, I don't see how it makes sense if UConn was really on the table.

Think I heard the current big 12 ADs are not as enthusiastic about Gonzaga as Yormark. You'd think Yormark would want more northeast teams being a new york guy. Gonzaga is the easiest to convince though obviously, all of the P5 or Big East schools are content to stay where they are... for now.

 

[cyfan92]

I have yet to hear an overly convincing argument FOR adding Gonzaga in MBB only..

Perhaps Yormark is hearing directly from broadcast partners that Gonzaga is worth A LOT to a MBB TV deal.

I'd rather digest the four new schools and make another realignment play once there is more confidence in the outcome of the ACC.

Remember, members took a pay CUT to welcome the 4 schools in 2024

 

[HFCS]

Think I heard the current big 12 ADs are not as enthusiastic about Gonzaga as Yormark. You'd think Yormark would want more northeast teams being a new york guy. Gonzaga is the easiest to convince though obviously, all of the P5 or Big East schools are content to stay where they are... for now.

It's hard to tell with UConn. They certainly are doing fine in status quo. You could argue Gonzaga is doing just as fine.

Agree with others that if we have a tournament where Gonzaga gets squeezed out because of conference affiliation it means college hoops is on the way out anyway. Nobody would care.

The Big 12 Tournament has been the third best basketball tournament in the USA pretty easily for over a decade. (After only NBA Finals and NCAA) Look at the national interest in the Big 12 tournament and that would be similar to your new NCAA tournament where there's no cinderella. As Big 12 fans we love the B12T but very few outside the B12 would ever care about it.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

I have yet to hear an overly convincing argument FOR adding Gonzaga in MBB only..

Perhaps Yormark is hearing directly from broadcast partners that Gonzaga is worth A LOT to a MBB TV deal.

I'd rather digest the four new schools and make another realignment play once there is more confidence in the outcome of the ACC.

Remember, members took a pay CUT to welcome the 4 schools in 2024

They won't take anywhere near a full share (most likely 1/8th) and chances are they pay for themselves and more between NCAA units and more big matchups later at night when Yormark splits basketball rights out which gives teams in the central time zone less of a chance of having to play home games at 9:00 or 9:30 local time.

 

[HouClone]

Seems like it is near universal with Big 12 fans that adding Gonzaga is not a good idea. Yormark knows this but keeps pushing Gonzaga. You wonder if there is something dark in the future Yormark knows that we don't. We have heard the rumors of the Big 10 and SEC acquiring the best football teams and doing a split. Maybe Yormark is trying to acquire the best basketball teams to leverage it to avoid the Big 10 / SEC squeezing the Big 12 out.

 

[Cyclonsin]

Seems like it is near universal with Big 12 fans that adding Gonzaga is not a good idea. Yormark knows this but keeps pushing Gonzaga. You wonder if there is something dark in the future Yormark knows that we don't. We have heard the rumors of the Big 10 and SEC acquiring the best football teams and doing a split. Maybe Yormark is trying to acquire the best basketball teams to leverage it to avoid the Big 10 / SEC squeezing the Big 12 out.

I get the feeling that it's much more split and not even close to universal in either direction amongst the fans, for what it's worth. Amongst my friends and circle of college fans, it seems overwhelmingly in favor of adding them.

My hunch is that it's an age thing. For folks mid-30s and under, we can't remember a time when they weren't a highly respected and competitive brand of basketball so I think a lot of us are on board with the addition to strengthen the conference as the undisputed premier basketball league.

People who can recall their rise to prominence seem worried about a fall back into obscurity after Few's retirement, but I think they're well enough established that it will take a significant period of downtime to sink them, and that's a real risk for nearly every any program.

 

[clone52]

Gonzaga beats up on a bunch of weak teams in their conference every year and gets a favorable NCAA seed which allows them to usually get past the first weekend.

If Gonzaga played a Big 12 conference schedule, I guarantee their record wouldn't be nearly as glossy (e.g., this year's Cincinnati, UCF, Houston, and BYU football records) and their tournament seed wouldn't be as high.

Would they elevate an already tough Big 12 basketball conference? Yes, for the short term, but I'm not as sure about the long term. Also, admitting a non-football school into the league makes things messy.

You really contradict yourself here. How do they raise the conference profile in the short term while they are a 5-13 conference team who doesn't even make the tournament.

You are really setting up a straw man. No one is saying they are going to win 10 straight conference titles. But if you think they aren't going to be a top half team from the get go, probably in the title chase.

You didn't mention Few, but they can be fine with a new coach. Like any program, it just takes the right hire.

 

[CascadeClone]

I have yet to hear an overly convincing argument FOR adding Gonzaga in MBB only..

Perhaps Yormark is hearing directly from broadcast partners that Gonzaga is worth A LOT to a MBB TV deal.

I'd rather digest the four new schools and make another realignment play once there is more confidence in the outcome of the ACC.

Remember, members took a pay CUT to welcome the 4 schools in 2024

Very much agree.

There is also some value, I suppose, in keeping this alive in the news cycle from time to time. Makes the Big12 look aggressive and strong, any press is good press, etc.

 

[mj4cy]

You really contradict yourself here. How do they raise the conference profile in the short term while they are a 5-13 conference team who doesn't even make the tournament.

You are really setting up a straw man. No one is saying they are going to win 10 straight conference titles. But if you think they aren't going to be a top half team from the get go, probably in the title chase.

You didn't mention Few, but they can be fine with a new coach. Like any program, it just takes the right hire.

Don't think he meant 5-13....but what I took from his post was instead of 18-0 or 17-1 every year it'd be more like 12-6 or 11-7 ect.

I too have the opinion it'd be fun at first to have them but the flash would wear off and we're just sharing our revenue with them....

 

[clone52]

Understand but if they were in a power conference they wouldn't of received the beneficial seeding that paved the way to 9 consecutive sweet 16s.

For many years, beating up on their weak conference goes actually stifled their seed.

 

[clone52]

Don't think he meant 5-13....but what I took from his post was instead of 18-0 or 17-1 every year it'd be more like 12-6 or 11-7 ect.

I too have the opinion it'd be fun at first to have them but the flash would wear off and we're just sharing our revenue with them....

He said similar to the new FB schools. They all have a conference FB record of 2-6

 

[mj4cy]

He said similar to the new FB schools. They all have a conference FB record of 2-6

Yeah don't agree with that. They'd be above average but not elite.

 

[clone52]

Don't think he meant 5-13....but what I took from his post was instead of 18-0 or 17-1 every year it'd be more like 12-6 or 11-7 ect.

I too have the opinion it'd be fun at first to have them but the flash would wear off and we're just sharing our revenue with them....

I think Yormark is right. Bundling FB and BB probably gives our media partners a discount. Separating them out would bring in more revenue. Right now, Gonzaga would be near the top of the conference in media value. Even if they turned into a middle of the pack team down the road, that is still average or better in terms of media value, so adding them would not hurt the payouts for anyone.

 

[Big_Sill]

I just think Yormark is stockpiling as many "major" brands as he can before our next media renewal (really not that far away).

If playing in the big 12 subsequently hurts Gonzaga's brand, I don't think he would care as they served a purpose at the next contact negotiation.

Been saying this for a while now. The next media deal will be far far more important than the previous one (even as important as it seemed). We have no OuT bargaining chip this time, and the collegiate sports and media rights landscape is going to further significantly change.