Thank you for being rational, and thoughtful in your response. It's refreshing to see someone that doesn't have a knee-jerk reaction to a couple down years.
I Say Keep PR!
- Thread starter IASTATE4LIFE
- Start date
Thank you for being rational, and thoughtful in your response. It's refreshing to see someone that doesn't have a knee-jerk reaction to a couple down years.
It's impolite to insult others. You can come back after you've finished your spelling assessment.
Who's accepting losing? Because everybody wants to win more and expects too, there are just different opinions on if CPR should be given another year to try to accomplish that or not.
Are you kidding me? You in this thread have had very little rational thoughts. You have now stated in this thread that the issues with the program are
a) Two players from two seasons ago are gone and that has left a big hole in the leadership of this team. Do you not see how stupid that sounds? So that's why the program is bad. Jake Knott and A.J. Klein are gone. How could anyone not see how rational that is?
b) The program has a a few seasons of ''bad luck.'' Yes, giving up 750 yards of offense to an opposing team is just ''bad luck.'' Or getting smoked by a FCS school is just 'bad luck.'' Definitely not a coaching problem. Just ''bad luck.''
If there is anyone that's irrational in this thread, it's you.
I wonder if most of you calling for his head are under the age of 35? I am just curious about this. My thought is that if you are, you have been lucky enough to see some mild success from our football program. And you are not old enough to realize that over the entire history of our program, we are a HORRIBLE football program. If you take the entire history of the program, I just don't see how you fire somebody from Iowa State for 2 bad seasons.
PR has taken us to 3 bowl games. That is 1/4 of all the bowl games Iowa State has ever been too. Just something to keep in mind.
PR has taken us to 3 bowl games. That is 1/4 of all the bowl games Iowa State has ever been too. Just something to keep in mind.
Hmm. Where to begin.
1. No, I was off of the McDermott bandwagon pretty early. It was clear he didn't have it early on, and it was only more solidified when players started leaving in droves.
2. I'm not blind. I just understand that success in recruiting at ISU has a razor-thin margin for error. I agree that he hasn't hit on as many recruits as I would have liked, but it isn't like it's an easy thing to project when you're selecting from 2 and 3 star kids. I completely agree with you that recruiting will be CPR's downfall, not coaching ability. I'm glad you can agree that he has demonstrated the ability to coach.
3. People wanted us to emulate K-state, so we bring in JUCOs to emulate K-state and it isn't a rousing success the first year. Therefore, it can never work because it didn't work the first year? But it has worked at K-state, so it can work, methinks. We just have to find the players. It goes back to recruiting.
4. Sure, every program loses 15-35 players a year, but those two players were both all-time greats in terms of leadership and production at ISU. Thus, it was and is extremely difficult to replace them. Generally, when a program loses two all time great players that are the heart and soul of your team, the success of the team is going to suffer. It happens every year. That is, it's normal. If there is not drop off in a situation like that, it's abnormal.
Kansas State's whole recruiting concept revolves around recruiting JUCO players. That is there game plan from day 1. There goal is JUCO's first, high school second. Every other program recruits JUCO players because they are desperate or have holes to fill.
Yes, there should be a drop off, but not a mountain side and it should not take at least three years to replace.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what is rational and what isn't rational.
a) I don't think it is unreasonable or irrational to think the defense is going to suffer a drop off when two all-time greats in terms of production and leadership (i.e., they cover a lot of mistakes) are replaced by much younger players.
b) Yes, please take an extreme worst case or two and show me how rational you are. Please continue to ignore the close game with K-state or the win at Iowa or the close game at Texas or TTU. We are bad this year. I never said we weren't. I never thought we were going to be good.
It's not a coaching problem. It's a talent problem. And, yes, I know that falls on the coach, but recruiting at ISU has a razor-thin margin for error, so there are gonna be more misses than hits.
P.S. The funny part is you bring in the 750 yards rushing after I had argued that losing Knott and Klein were huge loses for our defense. That sort of makes my point for me. Thanks.
I'm confused...should we recruit JUCOs or should we not recruit JUCOs? Or are you saying we can't do a hybrid or both?
I agree three years is enough. That is why I feel that if it doesn't improve next year, we can talk.
P.S. You're never gonna directly replace Knott and Klein...we will have to compensate in other areas.
I agree with what you are saying in this first post. However, go back and look at the 2012 season when Jake was not playing. It was terrible even with A.J. being out there. 2013 the linebacking crew actually looked pretty decent for the most part. The 2014 linebackers have looked terrible. I agree that there has been a drop off, but the drop off to this point came not after Knott and Klein left, but when George left.
I never thought this team would be good either. I actually thought this team would only win 3 games. I did however think this team would show improvement and at least be competitive. This team was competitive with Texas Tech because they are equally in the same boat as ISU. The difference is between them and ISU, is coaching is there biggest problem. It's talent at ISU.
Recruiting at ISU is only razor thin because ISU has yet to turn that corner. All the pieces were in place after that 2011 season for ISU to turn the corner and Rhoads fell flat on his face. Momentum was at an all time high for ISU. We were all having a good time and that is where we all became blind to where this program was heading. We thought we had the coach that was going to lead ISU to the upper echelon of the conference for at least a couple years. Instead, Rhoads failed to capitalize on that momentum and fast forward 3 years and ISU is now back to being THE bottom of the Big 12. All it takes to turn the tides of recruiting is a few good seasons and momentum flowing through the program. Coaches have to recognize that and take advantage.
No, all I was saying about JUCO recruiting is that it's a desperate move or a move that needs to be made because there are glaring holes. In Iowa States case, it's both.
I think this is where our expectations differed. I actually though we had a chance to be worse this year because of the turnover on the D-line. Our linebackers started off awfully last year, but did improve as the season progressed, but then we lost a 5th year senior, so I also thought we would regress there as well. And then we installed an entirely new offense, so I thought there would be growing pains in that area, too.
When you say that after 2011, we had a chance to turn the corner, I think when you are at the level of ISU, you need several seasons of success and splashes to truly get to the point of turning the corner. Even then, the corner is a long and winding corner that is fraught with ebbs and flows as you try to get there. It may be that you never get there with the current coach, but we have to give him another year to see if there is improvement.
You seem like a rational poster SeaDog. I think we are just splitting hairs here. You feel he needs another year, or in some strange sense, has "earned" it with his success from 3 years ago. Again, I use the term "success" loosely. I disagree, because I don't see what good one more year will do.
The recruiting has already soured, as we recently lost 3 commitments in one week. As I previously stated, we lose our best offensive and defensive lineman, as well as our best receiver. In your opinion, if we go 3-9 next year, is it fair to cut CPR loose? Is he in the clear with a gawdy 4-8 record? Not to be Debbie Downer, but I do not see 4 wins on the schedule next year.
The problem is the ridiculous contract JP laid out. All college AD's should know and abide by the "Ferentz rule". Never give your coach a 10 year extension based off of one good year. That is exactly what JP did, and it will cost him and the athletic dept. dearly to buy out the contract. Stupid, stupid, stupid. When you do that, you are stuck with lame duck coaches who will collect millions if you try to get rid of them.
You will have your wish, and we will be stuck with at least one more year with this lame duck coach, simply because we can't afford to buy out the stupid contract. That sets back the new coach one year. What if a great coach is available this year, but we miss out on him? Won't other schools use our "lame duck coach" status against us on the recruiting trail? (Oh, wait.) Won't attendance suffer next year, with less people buying season tickets?
There are many negatives to holding out for better results next year, but again, you will have your wish, and we shall see........
That we could not afford to fire him either. Thank you Creighton, and Doug Elgin
Imagine a BCS Power 5 conference team (for now anyway) being unable to fire a coach because they didn't have enough money.
That would be like a BCS Power 5 conference team having to finance a $7 million dollar scoreboard. :nah:
:sad:
Do you understand that because he has been so hamstrung financially that the trade off for salary is years on the contract? Because it sure seems like you don't.
Just like you don't seem to understand that we aren't a destination spot for coaches. The lowest salary, with the lowest budget, does not entice any guy with a future to come here and get buried.
Gene Chizik's people summed it up that fateful day in Stillwater. This is one of the the, if not the, toughest jobs in America.
So hopefully, this is a wake up call, finally, for the bitchers and moaners that don't do anything to solve the problem that has exited for 120 + years.
It takes a hell of a lot of money to compete at the level you all want to. More for a school with everything this one has going against it.
There is more than enough alumni to chip in. Will they do it? When I read a person on here complaining about spending $79 a ticket, or paying a coach by the win (?), I am pretty sure it isn't going to happen.
So we can hire all the new coaches you want. We aren't going to get the best available candidates, and they are going to face the same problems, especially with another round of realignment on the horizon. And we will be back here again in 4-5 years, with the same people throwing the same fit.
Fire the coach. Lose a pretty good recruiting class and start over is not a good solution IMO. We replaced 6 assistant coaches just 10 games ago and another assistant is coaching a new position group.
We get some DT help along with some LB help including Jordan Harris who redshirted and that will help the defense a lot.
I agree that losing the three recruits a few weeks ago wasn't pleasant. Hopefully, we can secure a few commitments from the visitors last weekend, most notably the top JUCO DT.
In a vacuum, yes, if we go 3-9 next year, I think it's probably time to go in another direction. However, that is assuming SR stays healthy and we aren't decimated by injuries in our already-thin defense. We had a chance to win 5 games this year (and technically still have a change to win 4), so if you think that we are going to be worse next year, then I agree to disagree. I think the loss of Bibbs will be offset by getting Bundrage back, and the continued development of Lazard, Montgomery, and Wesley. I think the loss of Morrissey (sp?) will hurt, but hopefully the linebacker play will be improved with Harris and more experience by Meeks and Knott, and some of the defensive linemen developing after another year under their belt. Thus, neither of those losses concern me as much as the loss of Farniok (sp?). There was a very noticeable drop off in production when he went down. I don't know how that will shake out, but I don't think it's hopeless. The offense will have another year of experience under their belt, so I'm hoping that alleviates some of the concern in that area.
At the end of the day, I think we need to see 5 or 6 wins to feel confident that CPR is on the right track. The following year scares me in that we will lose our QB. Not that SR is a worldbeater, but he has been serviceable this year for the most part.
And to your point about a coach not being available after next season...who's to say that there is or will be a coach worth pursuing after this season? Any coach we can get to come here is someone we are going to have to take a flier on, because we aren't a destination program...we just aren't. CPR is ISU and I'd rather role the dice with him another year than take a flier on a complete unknown. Thus, there are many negatives to making a rash decision to fire him.
I hope attendance doesn't suffer. I hope all ISU fans aren't as fickle and knee-jerk as some on here. I hope that they understand what ISU is and what ISU is not, at this point in time. I hope they can support the program through it's down years.
