Misc: Messi joins Inter Miami

WooBadger18

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MLS needs to become a promotion/relegation league in order to be watchable, imo
Why? Promotion/relegation can be nice by making a few games at the end of the season more exciting and allowing a city like Des Moines to get an MLS team. It can also solidify a few teams at the top, destroy rivalries, and could kill the league.

The mls has had something like 15 different champions since 2000 (I’ll try to find the actual stats when I get home). You wouldn’t get that with pro/rel and don’t get that in other leagues
 
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VeloClone

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I’m genuinely curious why it’s important in soccer. From what I’ve read it seems people think it would cause players to just hang back by the goal, but if that’s the case, why doesn’t that happen in basketball? It would certainly make the game different but would it make the game worse? Idk, I think that may depend on what you like about the sport.
For starters soccer is not a game of man to man defense. If you want it to become that then eliminate offside.

Also it is easier for one of 11 men to hang out by the goal and not contribute on defense than it is for one of 5 men to hang out by the goal and not contribute on defense. How do most 5 on 4 defensive possessions turn out? Is a goal scored very often when a player goes out with an injury and their team plays 10 on 11 for a minute or two?
 
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VeloClone

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We keep comparing BB rules to soccer rules so how about this one. Why once you bring the ball across half court in BB can you not take the ball back across? Because they want to limit the amount of court that defenders have to defend for a continuous amount of time. The game is less interesting if the offense can just retreat 90' away from the goal to relieve defensive pressure. The offside rule helps to limit the amount of field that has to be defended - at least at the moment. There would be a lot of teams that would get up by two goals and simply spread the field entirely out and play keep away. Defending goal line to goal line and touch line to touch line is next to an impossible proposition if you want to force the ball out. Remember the four corners offense? Nobody wants to watch that.
 

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We keep comparing BB rules to soccer rules so how about this one. Why once you bring the ball across half court in BB can you not take the ball back across? Because they want to limit the amount of court that defenders have to defend for a continuous amount of time. The game is less interesting if the offense can just retreat 90' away from the goal to relieve defensive pressure. The offside rule helps to limit the amount of field that has to be defended - at least at the moment. There would be a lot of teams that would get up by two goals and simply spread the field entirely out and play keep away. Defending goal line to goal line and touch line to touch line is next to an impossible proposition if you want to force the ball out. Remember the four corners offense? Nobody wants to watch that.
This makes sense, although I personally think it would more often lead to a higher number of goals being scored than playing keep away. Having never actually played the game outside of one or two gym classes could be impacting my reasoning though lol
 

jcisuclones

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This confuses me. MLS is unwatchable because there are some teams that are better or worse than other teams? In either scenario aren't there games where two teams from the top third of the league match-up? Aren't those games watchable?
Because there's literally nothing to play for. Half the league makes a "playoff" to win the league. It's dumb. The entire world laughs at it.
 

pulse

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Hockey is a lot better though because they have the blue line for offsides. If soccer had a similar offensive zone, it would be more exciting, without creating camping because offsides would still exist outside of an offsides line (blue line equivalent).
 

3TrueFans

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Hockey is a lot better though because they have the blue line for offsides. If soccer had a similar offensive zone, it would be more exciting, without creating camping because offsides would still exist outside of an offsides line (blue line equivalent).
How is a stationary line more exciting than a dynamic line? The defensive strategy of keeping your line, the risk/reward of having a high line vs. a deep line etc., and the offensive strategy of timing runs and through balls is pretty great.
 
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Gunnerclone

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This makes sense, although I personally think it would more often lead to a higher number of goals being scored than playing keep away. Having never actually played the game outside of one or two gym classes could be impacting my reasoning though lol

Then the same people crying about “need moar goals” would be saying “where’s the defense!”.

The bottom line is that the game is ancient and very highly developed. if you don’t appreciate tactics or bother to learn some basic tactical aspects of the game then you won’t get it. It’s up to you.
 
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cyclone13

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The pro/rel will not happen because MLS is a cartel. So you wouldn’t want to spend tons of money and then get relegated, play USL teams etc. this is because the teams were not organically founded by local communities but founded by millionaires, unlike in Europe.

Pro/rel will happen if there are too many MLS teams that make it impossible to have full “round robin” competition, even among the same conferences (similar to situation in Japan when there were too many teams this creating J League 2). To do this, you need to have many expansion teams and right now MLS have been careful in expanding the league (plus the barrier of entry of $500 million also slows down expansion)
 
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pulse

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How is a stationary line more exciting than a dynamic line? The defensive strategy of keeping your line, the risk/reward of having a high line vs. a deep line etc., and the offensive strategy of timing runs and through balls is pretty great.
Because the dynamic line makes everyone hold. If you had like a 20-30 yd offensive zone there would be more movement and scoring. Defense in soccer is boring as ****.
 

VeloClone

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This makes sense, although I personally think it would more often lead to a higher number of goals being scored than playing keep away. Having never actually played the game outside of one or two gym classes could be impacting my reasoning though lol
Have you ever watched the last ten minutes or so of games where a team is trying to defend a lead? Often they have little interest in scoring. They delay on every throw-in, free kick, corner kick, goal kick or ball in the keeper's hands; feign injury or milk the clock on a legitimate injury; argue with the Center on inconsequential calls; take their old sweet time substituting; make as many substitutions as possible; pass the ball around between defenders in their own half; and if they do happen to get the ball down around the corner - shield the ball in the corner for as long as possible letting the clock tick down. Often in those situations they have much more interest in controlling the ball then taking a shot on goal unless they get a free shot due to a defensive breakdown.
 

WooBadger18

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Because there's literally nothing to play for. Half the league makes a "playoff" to win the league. It's dumb. The entire world laughs at it.
How is there “literally nothing to play for?” You have the MLS title and spots in the CONCACAF champions cup to play for.

And do you cheer for Iowa State or any American pro teams? Because if you think MLS teams have nothing for, I can’t imagine how you’re a fan of a team in the NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL since they have even less to play for.

And Iowa State has even less “to play for.” Iowa State is most likely not winning a national title in our life times. So the best they can hope for is a meaningless exhibition game at the end of the season. And in basketball 100% of teams make the Big 12 tournament, and 70% make the “playoff” to win the title

Edit: I also think you’re dramatically overestimating how many people laugh at the mls. Most soccer fans don’t care, and of those that do care, a lot probably recognize it as a fine league (just not one of the best). The people who are most dismissive of the MLS seem to be the eurosnobs
 
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jcisuclones

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How is there “literally nothing to play for?” You have the MLS title and spots in the CONCACAF champions cup to play for.

And do you cheer for Iowa State or any American pro teams? Because if you think MLS teams have nothing for, I can’t imagine how you’re a fan of a team in the NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL since they have even less to play for.

And Iowa State has even less “to play for.” Iowa State is most likely not winning a national title in our life times. So the best they can hope for is a meaningless exhibition game at the end of the season. And in basketball 100% of teams make the Big 12 tournament, and 70% make the “playoff” to win the title

Edit: I also think you’re dramatically overestimating how many people laugh at the mls. Most soccer fans don’t care, and of those that do care, a lot probably recognize it as a fine league (just not one of the best). The people who are most dismissive of the MLS seem to be the eurosnobs
What's the incentive for the team that finishes last? The owners don't care, they're still getting the money from the league. They're not risking losing money by getting sent to a lower league, therefore they don't care. It's all a money grab exhibition league.

On top of that, what incentivizes me to get into football in an American league while living in Des Moines, when the future team (fingers crossed it happens) can only achieve winning a second tier title? Honestly nothing, unless the MLS keeps expanding to 50+ teams, or comes to their senses and adopts a pro/rel system like the rest of the world.
 

3TrueFans

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What's the incentive for the team that finishes last? The owners don't care, they're still getting the money from the league. They're not risking losing money by getting sent to a lower league, therefore they don't care. It's all a money grab exhibition league.

On top of that, what incentivizes me to get into football in an American league while living in Des Moines, when the future team (fingers crossed it happens) can only achieve winning a second tier title? Honestly nothing, unless the MLS keeps expanding to 50+ teams, or comes to their senses and adopts a pro/rel system like the rest of the world.
I can see that being someone's position, but you don't have the same issue with getting into watching Iowa State sports, or the Steelers, even though they don't have promotion and relegation?
 

jcisuclones

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I can see that being someone's position, but you don't have the same issue with getting into watching Iowa State sports, or the Steelers, even though they don't have promotion and relegation?
No, because that's how those sports were originally set up, however it think it would make those sports more interesting if they did have promotion and relegation.
 
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3TrueFans

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No, because that's how those sports were originally set up, however it think it would make those sports more interesting if they did have promotion and relegation.
The sport wasn't set up that way, people played soccer long before the English pyramid system was created. Even the first few years of the top tier of English soccer didn't have automatic relegation.
 

VeloClone

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Because there's literally nothing to play for. Half the league makes a "playoff" to win the league. It's dumb. The entire world laughs at it.
I guess I don't mind watching a game for the game's sake. Just because not every game has huge playoff implications doesn't make it "unwatchable."
 

Gunnerclone

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No, because that's how those sports were originally set up, however it think it would make those sports more interesting if they did have promotion and relegation.

This makes absolutely no sense. Win more = more money.

The Crew ownership group that took over from Precourt has a long history of investing and growing teams and clubs, they want to win, they are local, they want the local people to have a winner. It’s not as cynical as you think it is.

Also the US has our own version of the FA Cup, where every pro team is eligible, even the teams at DM Menace level. Check it out some time.
 
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