Except when he gets there he misses shots half the time or doesnt know where to pass the ball.
only one reason we are not as good as we thought...
- Thread starter Tedcyclone
- Start date
Except when he gets there he misses shots half the time or doesnt know where to pass the ball.
Yes, and that sentence incorporates lots of things - loose balls (or as coaches call them, "50-50 balls") , rebounds, blocking the passing lanes on defense, etc.
We just don't look like a team desperate to win...
My thoughts are that the problems are mostly due to a lack of overall team strength. I remember some of the better teams that ISU has had, all the players were ripped. Stinson was about 220lbs and just over 6'. Fizer was a beast, Horton, Tinsley, and Nurse were all big and could take a pounding. I think a heavy protein diet and a lot of weight lifting would go a long way. This would definitely help us finish shots and help our rebounding, which I think are the weakest parts of our team.
I think DG is part of the problem, but after watching them this year, their number 1 problem is rebounding!
Also, I don't think Mac is a great coach. They have too many of the little things that don't get executed properly. ie watch how much erosion they allow when setting screens.
I'm not sure why he was successful at UNI, and not here, but I don't think he can make it as a winning Big 12 BB coach. :sad:
Honestly, I agree with the OP. Our guard play is not good enough yet. It is better than the last couple years, but still not good enough. Colvin and Christopherson are the type of guards you need in the Big XII, but both are young and inexperienced. Garrett and Staiger would have a very hard time seeing the floor on most high major teams. Both should be coming off the bench. The best thing Garrett has done this year is not hurt the team. He has made smart plays and not turned the ball over, for the most part. Staiger is a great shooter but is a huge liability on defense, and offense because he is so one-dimensional.
We are such an easy team to defend.
Garrett - Back off 8-10 feet and take away the drive to the left side of the lane.
Staiger - Body him up. No threat inside the arc. Doesn't have the quickness to get away.
Gilstrap - Use the defender on Garrett to stop dribble penetration.
Brackins - Muscle him out of the lane. Takes away all inside presence.
Hamilton - Stay in front, always have weak side help from the 4 because Brackins is 18ft out.
We are such an easy team to defend.
Garrett - Back off 8-10 feet and take away the drive to the left side of the lane.
Staiger - Body him up. No threat inside the arc. Doesn't have the quickness to get away.
Gilstrap - Use the defender on Garrett to stop dribble penetration.
Brackins - Muscle him out of the lane. Takes away all inside presence.
Hamilton - Stay in front, always have weak side help from the 4 because Brackins is 18ft out.
DG's assist to turnover ratio is good but it is also misleading. In contrast to Colvin, DG tends to make the low-risk passes to the wings. They either make the shot or don't. If they make it, DG gets an assist.
On the other hand, Colvin is making the high-risk, high reward passes. He's hitting the guys who are cutting to the basket. This results in either a layup, a foul or a turnover. Only one of these three outcomes results in an assist for Colvin.
Even though DG's assist to turnover ratio is better, I maintain that ISU's offense is no worse off under Colvin's leadership.
On the other hand, Colvin is making the high-risk, high reward passes. He's hitting the guys who are cutting to the basket. This results in either a layup, a foul or a turnover. Only one of these three outcomes results in an assist for Colvin.
Even though DG's assist to turnover ratio is better, I maintain that ISU's offense is no worse off under Colvin's leadership.
Here was ISU's best point guard of all time, IMHO.
Granted this video is from his NBA days, but he played the same way in college, there just is no video of him on youtube. Just look at the 3 point shooting, the passing, the ability to finish around the basket. He was so fun to watch. And yes, I realize he did not even play point guard for the Jazz........they had some guy by the name of John Stockton or something...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV38gSMuCqA]YouTube - Jeff Hornacek career highlight reel[/ame]
Granted this video is from his NBA days, but he played the same way in college, there just is no video of him on youtube. Just look at the 3 point shooting, the passing, the ability to finish around the basket. He was so fun to watch. And yes, I realize he did not even play point guard for the Jazz........they had some guy by the name of John Stockton or something...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV38gSMuCqA]YouTube - Jeff Hornacek career highlight reel[/ame]
Don't agree - he was nowhere near the kind of player in college that he became in the pros. No one in Ames could have predicted Hornacek's NBA success.
If any of the guards you mentioned were put in the current offense we have, they would have looked worse than DG.
The players are not the problem. The team is. We have no identity on offense or defense. Until we find one, it wouldn't matter if our starting 5 was Tinsely, Hornacek, Hoiberg, Brackins, and Fizer, we would still struggle.
Look at the players who get blasted on this board.
DG - Duke couldn't stop him from getting to the rack whenever he felt like it.
Lucca - Hit 10 3's in one game. Best shooter at ISU since Sullivan
The players are on this team to make a sweet 16 run, I firmly believe that. Right now though, they have no leadership or guidance. Greg simply must figure out how to do that, or this season is going to be an epic disaster.
Great post. I especially like the bolded part. It is completely what I think of this team.
Identity, confidence, chemistry, winning. They all go hand in hand and it's hard to have one without the others. The problem is finding them. In my mind, this team needs that to click, and quickly.
This is a big problem and it includes the coach. Greg's responsibility is getting everyone to play nice with others.
On the flip side, this is the first season I've seen this issue come up. In past years, our guys worked hard, hustled and played together. They just were almost always outmatched by talent.
Now that we have better talent, we have too many guys doing their own thing and refusing to play their role. So I believe Greg knows how to get guys to play as a team and work hard, he just doesn't know how (so far) to get this group to do it.
Fixed it.
Last time I'll chime in on this. DG just well never be more than a serviceable PG, and Gmac's offense needs much more than a serviceable point man.
DG does a LOT of things well as a basketball player! Initiating the offense, making the right decisions without thinking twice, passing (and more specifically, feeding the post when the post is open, even if only for a split second), finishing consistently at the hoop, keeping the defense honest by being a threat from 3...are not in these lists of things. It's the cold hard truth.
But the fact remains that he currently is our PG, and the best we have to play that position at the time being. I will cheer him on like hell, and be proud and happy when he makes big plays (which often times will come from him taking his man to the hoop or slashing), but I won't put unreasonable expectations upon him as a PG and be disappointed when he doesn't reach those expectations. In a lot of ways, he's a "guy without a position"...doesn't mean he can't be a leader and a guy that helps us win.
I said he played the same way in college, and he did. He did not play the same position in college and the pros. But his ability to pass and to drive and finish at the basket was the same in college as it was in the pros. He was the career assist leader in the old Big 8 conference. His ability to shoot from the outside, especially from behind the arc improved in the pros, but that was probably mostly due to the fact that they wanted him to shoot out there. He was a 2nd round pick, so someone must have been expecting him to have some success.
I disagree about the guard play. Our guard play is not amazing by any means, but it doesn't suck either. DG's improvement between last year and this is very good and his assist to turnover ration is almost a full point higher than it was last year not to mention he's averaging 8.5 points/game and 5.4 assists/game. Not amazing, but he's not horrible by any means
I disagree completely.....they probably could not make this a sweet 16 team, but Hornacek, Tinsley, and possibly even Blalock or Hollaway would be doing a better job of running the offense than DG does. Why? Because all of them would take control of the other players on the floor....including CB and Gilstrap. DG does not do that. I'm not sure if he is intimidated by them or what, but he needs to take charge and run the offense.
As far as your second statement, whose responsibility to find the team identity is it? The players, or GMac and his staff? The coach should be able to recognize the talent he has, and their particular skills and weaknesses and create both a team offense and defense that fits their skills. To me, GMac often looks just as confused and lost as his players. Tell me any adjustments he has made this year in terms of personnel, game to game, that was not because of injury or suspensions or whatever.
You mention DG in the Duke game, and how Duke could not stop him from driving "whenever he felt like it". ISU lost by over 20.....so if that was true, then why did he not feel like it more often? He had 10 points on 5 of 9 shooting! Yeah, Duke just couldn't contain him! He also had 3 big assists and 5 turnovers.
Lucca has had one really really good shooting night (Drake) and one pretty good night (Houston......although he was under 50%). Actually, SC is a better shooter from outside than Lucca. SC has hit 50% from 3 point range, Lucca 42.9. Plus, Lucca has 2 non-3-point baskets, SC 22. Overall, SC shoots 51.3% from the field, Lucca 42.3. Lucca averages about 4 minutes more per game so far, yet assists, rebounds, turnovers, steals and blocks for the two are virtually equal. So who really should probably be starting at the 2 spot?
I was at the game, and he drove in the lane quite a bit, but didn't get very much help...what he did was penetrate quite a bit and yes at times at will BUT it was just penetration which is good WHEN your other players are helping
I agree. Lucca is one of the most inefficient in-game shooters I've seen in a long time. Lucca is a 3 point specialist right now and I have not seen him do anything but shoot 3's except for once. He's apparently a good passer...haven't seen it yet.
I've seen SC penetrate and drive to the hoop, shoot 10-12 foot jumpers, etc. He is a more polished all around player easily.
His ratio is higher right now........wait until ISU is a few games into the Big 12 season. If he can maintain the ration he has in the first 15 games, great.
No no, DG is not amazing, but he's improved is what I was trying to say.. Nowhere near Stinson or Blalock. Which, by the way, why the HELL did people ever give Stinson crap? I never understood that? He averaged 20 points, 5 assists, 5 rebounds one year I remember. How many people even did that in college? Not a lot actually and people still had the gaul to give him **** for "not passing the ball" and whatever.
Anyway, I digress...Chris Colvin has a lot of potential to be that type of guard that Blalock/Stinson and even Tinsley were...
I can agree. I saw him play as a newcomer to ISU, scrimmaging in the summer at State Gym with the others. No one really knew who he was, but he never backed down and exhibited that fire and "finish at the basket" you mentioned.
I know he had a great career at ISU, no doubt, but I still believe fans elevate his days as a Cyclone because they attach his NBA excellence to their evaluation.
I don't know, there may be some of that elevation, but he was an excellent playmaker and passer while at ISU. He actually scored better in Phoenix and Philly out of the point guard position than he did in Utah. But in Utah, he and Stockton were about as good a backcourt as there was in the NBA at the time. I don't know.......there was just a confidence with Hornacek running the offense at ISU that has been missing for a long time. Tinsley was close, and so was Blalock, but Hornacek was pretty special.
