Perspective on the team and our fanbase

[DeereClone]

It seems like our fanbase is imploding right now, which is fine. We are a passionate fanbase that loves Cyclone Basketball. The meltdown right now has been caused by two things: 1) the opportunity to compete for a conference title is real this year, and 2) we as fans take home losses personally. The first point is obvious, Kansas is down, we have a lot of talent, we have won some games on the road we don't normally win, so if we just take care of business at home we put ourselves in a position to win the title. The second point I think is something that is real that doesn't get discussed often enough - Iowa State fans have a legitimate belief that they have a major impact on the outcome of games at Hilton. By nature, if we take credit for the team winning in an unbelievable fashion, upsetting a top opponent, or cheering the team to a huge comeback, we will also take it personally if we lose at home.

If we look back at one of the best runs in ISU history, 2011-2017, we finished with the following records/places:

11/12: 12-6, 4th place
12/13: 11-7, 4th place
13/14: 11-7, 3rd place
14/15: 12-6, Tied 2nd-3rd place
15/16: 10-8, 6th place
16/17: 12-6, Tied 2nd-4th place

Using Mred's generator and leaving all the games the rest of the way exactly how it has them picked (I believe he uses Massey ratings), we will finish 12-6 and be in 4th place in the conference this year.

It's disappointing we weren't able to make a run at a conference title, there is plenty of criticism to go around for both coaches and players, and it's alright for us to be pissed off right now, but at the end of the day if the projections hold, this team will still finish among some of the best teams we have had in recent history. From there, all we can hope for is a fun run in KC and in the NCAAs.

 

[madguy30]

It's fair to be OK with an 12-6 or 11-7 record vs. all of the unknowns on this team...it's just in the WAY they've lost that's baffling.

If they have 10 losses prior to the Big 12 tournament it should be deemed as disappointing.

It's not like Baylor did anything extraordinary last night. Drive the ball, crash the boards, take advantage of ISU's lack of size + poor fundamentals.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

At the end of the day, I think most of us have good perspective, but are also really frustrated about the losses. The two things are definitely not mutually exclusive.

Just like I wasn't counting on losing at home to TCU, Baylor or KState, I also wasn't counting on winning at Tech and at KState. As fans, we go into games with a predetermined outcome in our heads (good or bad). The outliers are tougher to recover from.

I'm ok with people being upset about last night. Even when we've had mediocre teams, we've been really really good at home. Losing at home due to effort is frustrating.

Now we just choose to be optimists or pessimists.

 

[fsanford]

Pretty much like most fan bases, extremists on both ends, and 95% of the rest moderates, constructive criticism but not wanting to fire the coach or pull scholarships from players

 

[VeloClone]

Before the season anybody would have signed up for what has happened without reservation. But circumstances change, and the fact is we've lost 3 home games we were 10 point favorites in. Without looking it up, we probably don't lose many games we are home double digit favorites in. The team is up and down, and so it's just hard to know what to expect.

This team is still very good and can make a lot of good things happen.

Yes, TCU and Baylor are legitimate big underdog losses, but there is no way if that KSU game was handicapped right now it would be a 10+ point spread. They are in the drivers seat for the conference championship. Heck if Weber had come forward and said that Wade would play instead of his continual cat and mouse game about injuries it might have not been on that day either.

This team suffers from a lack of toughness and a lack of vocal player leadership which I think go hand in hand. If there was ever a time for a players only meeting this is it. Who on the team is ready to take on that role and call one? I have my hopes set on Shayok.

 

[heitclone]

Not at all disappointed in our record, this season has been fun to watch and we have a really good team. It is a bummer that we shot ourselves i the foot given how many other things lined up that could have made this a special season. There is still a lot to play for and this team has the talent to make a tourney run but 3 home losses realistically closed the door on some things that could have made this an amazing season.

 

[Cyched]

Not at all disappointed in our record, this season has been fun to watch and we have a really good team. It is a bummer that we shot ourselves i the foot given how many other things lined up that could have made this a special season. There is still a lot to play for and this team has the talent to make a tourney run but 3 home losses realistically closed the door on some things that could have made this an amazing season.

I think this is the source of most of our frustration. Each time we had a chance to do something special we laid an egg. Something that’s not just limited to basketball or this season at ISU. Also frustrating when we’ve seen that this team has a higher ceiling than what they’ve shown at times.

Ultimately what will end up being a 20+ win season and NCAA berth will be a fine bounce back from last season. I just want to see this team make some noise in March like we know they’re capable of.

 

[CyHans]

Yes, TCU and Baylor are legitimate big underdog losses, but there is no way if that KSU game was handicapped right now it would be a 10+ point spread. They are in the drivers seat for the conference championship. Heck if Weber had come forward and said that Wade would play instead of his continual cat and mouse game about injuries it might have not been on that day either.

This team suffers from a lack of toughness and a lack of vocal player leadership which I think go hand in hand. If there was ever a time for a players only meeting this is it. Who on the team is ready to take on that role and call one? I have my hopes set on Shayok.

I completely agree with the lack of toughness and vocal leaders. They seem really out of sync at crucial times and make some really bad turnovers and take some really bad shots. I'm also calling out the fans to a point. It's hard to find the Hilton Magic when the fans aren't on their feet yelling. I know it's hard to cheer when your team is not playing well but that's where the magic comes from. Lifting your team up and intimidating the opposing team.
I also agree that at the beginning of the year I'd be happy with our record. It's just hard to be so close and yet not there.

 

[jbindm]

Yes, TCU and Baylor are legitimate big underdog losses, but there is no way if that KSU game was handicapped right now it would be a 10+ point spread. They are in the drivers seat for the conference championship. Heck if Weber had come forward and said that Wade would play instead of his continual cat and mouse game about injuries it might have not been on that day either.

This team suffers from a lack of toughness and a lack of vocal player leadership which I think go hand in hand. If there was ever a time for a players only meeting this is it. Who on the team is ready to take on that role and call one? I have my hopes set on Shayok.

I don't know about lack of toughness. I do think they're wildly inconsistent, and you can probably chalk that up to a combination of youth and a lack of leadership. The problem is that they can't really afford to lean on either of those as excuses anymore. The young guys now have almost a full season under their belts, and if any of the upperclassmen are going to step up into a leadership role then they better do it soon because they're running out of time.
One opportunity (conference championship) has been squandered. This team is still good enough to win the conference tourney and make a deep run in March, but only if they grow up in a big hurry.

 

[casey1973]

I was at the game last night and I bet they had us 15-20 lbs for each player. We were manhandled underneath the basket. To me that was the deciding factor along with being out of position so many times. The crowd was great but frustrated so many times.

 

[Cyched]

I was at the game last night and I bet they had us 15-20 lbs for each player. We were manhandled underneath the basket. To me that was the deciding factor along with being out of position so many times. The crowd was great but frustrated so many times.

I unfortunately wasn’t able to make it last night, but even watching at home it was one of the more frustrating/agonizing games to watch this year. I can understand the crowd being a little more tense than the usual “magical” atmosphere.

 

[jsb]

What’s this? A reasonable post with readonable responses? It’s what I’ve always dreamed of.

I couldn’t agree more. The last couple of home games have been maddening. The last couple of road games have been great.

The season has had ups and downs but more ups. Much like most of the last 9 years.

 

[Al_4_State]

Before the season anybody would have signed up for what has happened without reservation. But circumstances change, and the fact is we've lost 3 home games we were 10 point favorites in. Without looking it up, we probably don't lose many games we are home double digit favorites in. The team is up and down, and so it's just hard to know what to expect.

This team is still very good and can make a lot of good things happen.

This.

We're ahead of what any reasonable person expected, but we had the opportunity to do something really special, and have given that opportunity away via 3 home losses where we were double digit favorites. You can be simultaneously pissed off about this, but ok with things over all.

But anyone pining for Fred needs to remember that his '11-'12 and '14-'15 teams pissed away a lot of opportunity as well. '14-'15 had a home loss to Baylor that sealed their fate.

 

[CyGuy5]

Its the fact that this team had a legitimate shot at winning the conference, something that hasn't been done in 18 years. With the talent on this team there is no reason to be dropping games at home to TCU and Baylor. They've shown the potential they have and when they consistently lay an egg in the games you have to win it gets old. I would love to see this team do something in March, but at this point I have no expectations. A first or second round exit would not surprise me whatsoever.

It seems to be a common theme that when we have the chance to finally do something big, or take the next step, we fail. This isn't just in basketball, look last season's Texas football game for example.

 

[SC Cy]

My main frustration was with the fans. I'll get the situation a little wrong but you get the idea. Baylor was up 2 with the ball and there was 2:00 remaining in the game. The crowd was stone silent. It was really odd. I miss the days where the crowd would give the players something to feed off of. The students would be so loud that Jake Sullivan would pound his hands on the court.

I know the response I'll get, "It was loud at times" or "Give them something to cheer for". I guess it's the chicken or the egg argument.

I also find it odd when fans criticize the players/coach then take serious offense when the silent crowd gets criticized. So. Many. Arms. Crossed.

 

[Gunnerclone]

We’ve had a ton of issues:

-Lards summer and delayed return
-Wigs injury
-Two freshman starting and playing major minutes
-SY our for the year

Imo this team has overachieved. The fan base has underachieved as is tradition.

 

[Dannynoonan]

My angst comes from a lack of fundamentals and effort. Defensively we were pretty good early in the year and that is what gave me hope with this team, but now... poor screens on offense, poor rubs off those screens, horrific screen defense, on ball defense, defensive rotation, boxing out, and effort on offensive rebounding. I guess I don't know if it's Prohm's fault for not building these things into habits or just the players being lazy and I'm not sure which I would be more upset about.

The fact is HE is the coach and is ultimately in charge of the product- missing shots is NOT the coaches fault but the things listed are both coach and player. Effort doesn't take talent(!!!) and you saw a DIII player get a double double on us last night, because he gave great effort. These losses show poor attention to detail and lackadaisical effort. The hot 3 pt shooting just masked it and cannot be counted on consistently. As a diehard I bleed cardinal and gold and hope things get fixed asap, but we'll have to see if the players can be humble enough to fix it.

 

[LarryISU]

Losing at home due to effort is frustrating.

This is the hardest part for me. Many, many times our guys just stood there as if they were conceding the rebound to Baylor. NWB had one shot he missed that bounced right back to him, but he never moved and that little Baylor kid ran hard and grabbed it while NWB still stood there, I guess maybe stunned that he missed? But it was the whole team, that's just one example.

 

[VeloClone]

My main frustration was with the fans. I'll get the situation a little wrong but you get the idea. Baylor was up 2 with the ball and there was 2:00 remaining in the game. The crowd was stone silent. It was really odd. I miss the days where the crowd would give the players something to feed off of. The students would be so loud that Jake Sullivan would pound his hands on the court.

I know the response I'll get, "It was loud at times" or "Give them something to cheer for". I guess it's the chicken or the egg argument.

I also find it odd when fans criticize the players/coach then take serious offense when the silent crowd gets criticized. So. Many. Arms. Crossed.

I want to be careful criticizing the fans since I have not been able to attend many BB games for quite a few years. All fan bases cheer for their team when the team gives them something to cheer about. What always set Hilton Magic apart for me was when the crowd sensed that the team needed help because things weren't going too well they would spontaneously rise up and try to give the team energy. I know that is hard when the team is playing poorly or is simply getting out hustled or out worked. It has to be a conscious decision and you have to have critical mass of the attendees making that decision.

Last night I said it to my wife on a couple of different occasions - the crowd needs to get loud, the team needs help when it wasn't going well or after a Cyclone 3 when the crowd got loud that was answered by a Baylor 3 and the crowd went silent. They talk about silencing the crowd. The crowd doesn't have to go silent. Pause for a second so it is clear you aren't cheering the opponent 3 and go right back to cheering the team on. I was calling for that one last night as well. It can be disheartening for a player when you "silence the crowd" and they come back just as loud a couple of seconds later. The crowd can do the same thing to a coach who takes a time out to silence the crowd. Maybe take a little break during a ridiculously long time out but start ramping it up again before play resumes again. There is no rule that says the crowd has to cooperate with an attempt to silence them.

I get it, the team needs to cooperate because the crowd can only do so much, but if you go to the trouble to get to Hilton or JTS you might as well try as much as you can.

 

[CapnCy]

I've reminded myself that championship teams don't lose at home (to the likes of TCU and Baylor)....and I recognize the "sting" of "coulda shoulda" is strong as it's likely at the end of the season those losses (and maybe even the K-State layup/missed free throws) will likely be the difference in a 4th place finish and a championship.

Stinks to be so close.

BUT, I'm also reminded after a last place finish....to be essentially in the top 25 all season is still good....but as stated, we are expecting more.