Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)

SEIOWA CLONE

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What was there, one football game on the LHN? As a subscription per team in the NFL or NBA and you’d see a decline too, not sure how it’s relevant.
There was one conference game, but they also showed at least some of the lesser non-conference games also. If ESPN did not think they would make money, then why set up the network? The demand for a single team network was not large enough to pay for the investment. UT is not ND, that has band wagon fans all over the country.
 

simply1

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There was one conference game, but they also showed at least some of the lesser non-conference games also. If ESPN did not think they would make money, then why set up the network? The demand for a single team network was not large enough to pay for the investment. UT is not ND, that has band wagon fans all over the country.
ESPN set them up a network to help keep them from going to the PAC, and Fox, which was in the works at the time.
You tell be why you think ESPN paid for the LHN.
 
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SEIOWA CLONE

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ESPN set them up a network to help keep them from going to the PAC, and Fox, which was in the works at the time.
You tell be why you think ESPN paid for the LHN.
Put me in the camp that neither UT or OU were ever going to move to the Pac, UT wanted the LHN, and ESPN hoped that they could make money from it., also looking them in the B12, until ESPN figured out they could make more money to get them to move to the SEC. Do you think for a moment that if ESPN would not have gotten the SEC contract they would have not worked to move both UT and OU to the SEC?
 
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simply1

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Put me in the camp that neither UT or OU were ever going to move to the Pac, UT wanted the LHN, and ESPN hoped that they could make money from it., also looking them in the B12, until ESPN figured out they could make more money to get them to move to the SEC. Do you think for a moment that if ESPN would not have gotten the SEC contract they would have not worked to move both UT and OU to the SEC?
Whether they were ever going to move or not, ESPN was willing to pay and hope the football program sustained success to ensure they didn’t move.
The last half of your paragraph seems irrelevant, obviously ESPN wouldn’t have been working to move OUT to a competitor, why even say that?

I’m not even sure what you’re trying to argue at this point other than propping up straw man arguments.
 
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SEIOWA CLONE

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Whether they were ever going to move or not, ESPN was willing to pay and hope the football program sustained success to ensure they didn’t move.
The last half of your paragraph seems irrelevant, obviously ESPN wouldn’t have been working to move OUT to a competitor, why even say that?
ESPN was working with UT from the start, they hoped that the LHN would be a hit, instead it did nothing but lose money for ESPN. UT wanted the network, and ESPN was willing to provide it. When ESPN got the SEC contract, they worked to move OU and UT to the SEC. That is why they offered the B12 the network deal that they did, they were told by Bowlsby, that the league had the dirt on the back door deal and would sue ESPN if the league did not give the B12 a new contract.
 

simply1

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ESPN was working with UT from the start, they hoped that the LHN would be a hit, instead it did nothing but lose money for ESPN. UT wanted the network, and ESPN was willing to provide it. When ESPN got the SEC contract, they worked to move OU and UT to the SEC. That is why they offered the B12 the network deal that they did, they were told by Bowlsby, that the league had the dirt on the back door deal and would sue ESPN if the league did not give the B12 a new contract.
You’re missing the part where half the conference was looking at going to the PAC, and Texas used that leverage to get the deal they did with the LHN. Why else would ESPN overpay that much??

ESPN and Fox were both bidding for the LHN as well.
 

SEIOWA CLONE

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You’re missing the part where half the conference was looking at going to the PAC, and Texas used that leverage to get the deal they did with the LHN. Why else would ESPN overpay that much??

ESPN and Fox were both bidding for the LHN as well.
You seem to be forgetting that OU and UT were the ones that floated the idea about moving to the P12. It was only four teams, not half the conference. UT used that threat, that you call leverage to get what they wanted which was the LHN. UT as always was only looking out for UT and could careless about the rest of the conference.

 
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Jer

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I completely understand why people want to expect and presume donor fatigue will tamp down NIL. But I can tell you, the only concern of fatigue is with the small donor collectives. Big time donors are actually using it (not surprising) as a **** measuring contest and ego booster. They're used to giving millions a year to the AD, regardless of outcome. Now they can say, hey I paid X player directly to come here. And if you see tOSU who has spent upwards of $15mil this offseason on football players does well this year, that will hopefully get common folk to understand the true power of NIL.

High level donors care about ego, pride, and measurements far more than the ROI on something they've already been giving to for decades. There is NO sign or talk amongst anybody I've heard from (donors, NIL people, etc) that would suggest there is going to be any decline at the high end. If anything, places that rely so much more on collectives may have a disadvantage as those smaller transactions are from regular people that have disposable funds.

You can want something, you can expect something, and you can make a logical rationale for why something should occur.... but all evidence, talk, and discussions point to no high dollar donor fatigue anywhere in the near future.
 

BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
You seem to be forgetting that OU and UT were the ones that floated the idea about moving to the P12. It was only four teams, not half the conference. UT used that threat, that you call leverage to get what they wanted which was the LHN. UT as always was only looking out for UT and could careless about the rest of the conference.

I thought the LHN was already in existence and that is what kept the P12 from taking them.
 

cykadelic2

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I completely understand why people want to expect and presume donor fatigue will tamp down NIL. But I can tell you, the only concern of fatigue is with the small donor collectives. Big time donors are actually using it (not surprising) as a **** measuring contest and ego booster. They're used to giving millions a year to the AD, regardless of outcome. Now they can say, hey I paid X player directly to come here. And if you see tOSU who has spent upwards of $15mil this offseason on football players does well this year, that will hopefully get common folk to understand the true power of NIL.

High level donors care about ego, pride, and measurements far more than the ROI on something they've already been giving to for decades. There is NO sign or talk amongst anybody I've heard from (donors, NIL people, etc) that would suggest there is going to be any decline at the high end. If anything, places that rely so much more on collectives may have a disadvantage as those smaller transactions are from regular people that have disposable funds.

You can want something, you can expect something, and you can make a logical rationale for why something should occur.... but all evidence, talk, and discussions point to no high dollar donor fatigue anywhere in the near future.
It's too early to assess overall high dollar donor fatigue across the entire P4 landscape but there are instances of it (e.g. TX A&M) where donors have been burnt by less than stellar results and it is logical to expect those instances to increase. And there are obvious cases (Louisville & UK MBB, Ohio St FB) where there are new initiatives by those schools that have resulted in new spending sprees by those programs. One or more of those programs will likely get burnt in doing so like TX A&M has.

Now will that increasing fatigue completely stifle the NIL (i.e. pay for play) market? Of course not. But in another couple of years, I am willing to bet that a majority of high dollars donors would not oppose a rational NIL framework as proposed by the Super League Committee.
 

simply1

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You seem to be forgetting that OU and UT were the ones that floated the idea about moving to the P12. It was only four teams, not half the conference. UT used that threat, that you call leverage to get what they wanted which was the LHN. UT as always was only looking out for UT and could careless about the rest of the conference.

I’m shocked Texas Monthly has a story to tell that shines up Texas.

https://theathletic.com/1083080/201...nment-2010-big-12/?source=user_shared_articleThe superconference that wasn’t: How the Pac-16 plan changed college sports

Scott aimed to invite Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and Colorado, making his league the biggest conference in college sports.

“There was a lot of momentum, a lot of excitement about it,” then-Baylor athletic director Ian McCaw said. “It would have become an absolute superpower.”
“DeLoss Dodds, very close friend, told me he was never interested in going to the Pac-12; it was all inspired by the conference,” said Chuck Neinas, a former Big 8 commissioner who stepped in as Big 12 interim commissioner in 2011.

So why take deliberations as far as Texas did and put the Big 12 in as much peril as the conference found itself in that summer of 2010?

“He got the Longhorn Network,” Neinas said.
Anyways it feels like you’re arguing to argue at this point. I said the below, and whether Texas was ever really going to leave or not wasn’t part of my statement.
ESPN set them up a network to help keep them from going to the PAC, and Fox, which was in the works at the time.
You tell be why you think ESPN paid for the LHN.
 

Jer

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It's too early to assess overall high dollar donor fatigue across the entire P4 landscape but there are instances of it (e.g. TX A&M) where donors have been burnt by less than stellar results and it is logical to expect those instances to increase. And there are obvious cases (Louisville & UK MBB, Ohio St FB) where there are new initiatives by those schools that have resulted in new spending sprees by those programs. One or more of those programs will likely get burnt in doing so like TX A&M has.

Now will that increasing fatigue completely stifle the NIL (i.e. pay for play) market? Of course not. But in another couple of years, I am willing to bet that a majority of high dollars donors would not oppose a rational NIL framework as proposed by the Super League Committee.
1 - Same thing has been true for AD donations forever. Donors give big money to places like Texas A&M, Miami, Indiana, etc and they still suck. The donors don't decrease.

2 - Texas A&M is a great example actually. Common sense would tell us poor people that they would feel "burnt", but from everything I've heard, the big donors treat every year as its own opportunity. Their NIL is reportedly actually getting a boost because of the new hope/blood in the program.

3 - Ego/**** measuring will ensure they stay competitive against their peers.
 
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simply1

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1 - Same thing has been true for AD donations forever. Donors give big money to places like Texas A&M, Miami, Indiana, etc and they still suck. The donors don't decrease.

2 - Texas A&M is a great example actually. Common sense would tell us poor people that they would feel "burnt", but from everything I've heard, the big donors treat every year as its own opportunity. Their NIL is reportedly actually getting a boost because of the new hope/blood in the program.

3 - Ego/**** measuring will ensure they stay competitive against their peers.
That’s the thing, A&M has to live with Texas. And now the Longhorns are in the same conference again. No way are they going to stop giving.
 
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cykadelic2

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2 - Texas A&M is a great example actually. Common sense would tell us poor people that they would feel "burnt", but from everything I've heard, the big donors treat every year as its own opportunity. Their NIL is reportedly actually getting a boost because of the new hope/blood in the program.

3 - Ego/**** measuring will ensure they stay competitive against their peers.
Behavior such as this isn't indicative of an all out effort or boost by the aggys to retain top talent. This kid may end up at Oregon. And as noted, he is not the only talented kid to bolt despite Jimbo being replaced.

 

simply1

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Behavior such as this isn't indicative of an all out effort or boost by the aggys to retain top talent. This kid may end up at Oregon. And as noted, he is not the only talented kid to bolt despite Jimbo being replaced.

Seems like all those guys got recruited over and/or weren’t going to start.

 
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HouClone

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You seem to be forgetting that OU and UT were the ones that floated the idea about moving to the P12. It was only four teams, not half the conference. UT used that threat, that you call leverage to get what they wanted which was the LHN. UT as always was only looking out for UT and could careless about the rest of the conference.

And Texas Tech and Ok State were trashing the Big 12 thinking it was a done deal to the P12 and that they were going to tag along. Now look at them.
 

HoopsTournament

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Two things have to happen to make the Super League payouts worthwhile for the B10 and SEC. One is aggregation of all Super League rights for both the regular season and CFP into one package that is bid out NFL style to max out monetizing all of those rights. Two is unequal revenue sharing and that can be easily figured out where maybe 50%-60% of the total revenue pie is shared equally and the other 40%-50% is allocated based on TV ratings including the CFP games.
I would add some component of payout based on teams winning also. Probably 40% equal, 40% based on ratings and 20% based on results.
 

sj4

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I see that in the 70 thing they have us and Iowa in the same group. I've got to find a Hawkeye thread and see how many of their heads are exploding. I just wish one more time the rumor would come out that the Big 10 was dropping their AAU requirement so they could take Iowa State. Watching Hawkeye fans react to that idea would be a lot of fun.
 

HoopsTournament

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Well they have a point there. I definitely watched several of those team this year. Tx and OK so I could see how the conference all measured up to each other. OSt, MI, Penn St., and Wisky would have been in the running to see them wipe up the floor with Iowa (If it wasn't a blow out, I'd leave.) Alabama, Clemson, ND and Georgia would get me to tune in IF I saw they were down in the second half.

Otherwise, I would not really seek out any of these teams for any reason. I'm a college sports fan. BUT, I am really an ISU fan with a college sports adjacency to my ISU fandom. If it doesn't really have relevance to the Cyclones, I'm not going to seek it out. All of the things above that I mentioned are primarily due to hatred. If those teams leave and form some super group. I will no longer hate them or care about how they did against a common competitor, or anything. They will be less relevant to me than the second pro league becuase it is possible that an ISU player might be on one of those teams and I'd watch that sometimes.

I just wonder how many fans are like me OR are really going to be fans of the third best football league (maybe 4th with CFL thrown in) in North America whose schools they have NO affiliation with.
If we ever go to a 20-30 team league, I predict it will utterly fail and then start expanding to get more exposure and money and eventually grow into a ~70-team league. I may be dead by the time it gets that big, but they are going to want lesser teams in the league to win more games and to bring “new” fans that aren’t currently fans of the teams in the league.
 

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