Regents to Mull Program Cuts to Meet Budget

[RayShimley]

It's ironic that you can't think outside the norm when critical thinking skills are a supposed attribute of all the extra liberal arts classes we were forced to take at Iowa State. You are unable to visualize what this new reality would look like. An Iowa State education would still be an Iowa State education. Potential employers would still value it more than a DMACC education.

More isn't better by default. It's just not. If more is better, why four years? Why not five? Or six? Or eight? Or ten? That is where your logic completely falls apart. The current model is arbitrary and it wasn't always as it is today. It has evolved to where it is to best serve the higher education industry.

How does my logic fall apart? Is there not further education available above and beyond an undergraduate degree?

You're right about one thing though, the current model isn't how it always was. In fact, a B.S. or B.A. degree used to be much LESS focused on job training and MORE on breadth of knowledge, so I'm not really sure how that supports your argument against the evil higher education industry.

 

[RayShimley]

A lot of those research profs are spending their time away from teaching doing research, which pays the bills for the university far above their salary and helps keep tuition lower.

This. Department chairs aren't dumb. They appoint higher teaching loads to faculty who bring in less research $$ and vice versa. The majority of that research $$ is also from federal and private funding sources which is a boon to the state and the University.

 

[Senolcyc]

How does my logic fall apart? Is there not further education available above and beyond an undergraduate degree?

You're right about one thing though, the current model isn't how it always was. In fact, a B.S. or B.A. degree used to be much LESS focused on job training and MORE on breadth of knowledge, so I'm not really sure how that supports your argument against the evil higher education industry.

What is your line of work? Age is about, what, 28?

 

[kingcy]

This is such wonderful insight. I am certain you are correct and that your extensive research into the matter has brought you to this conclusion. One out of every four classes at Iowa State University are complete and total jokes. In addition, out out of every four majors at Iowa State University could be taken away and hardly anyone would care. It makes so much sense.

Kingcy for the next ISU President!

Think of the classes you took at ISU and how many of those did you really need to take to get a job in your field?

Take a look at the majors at ISU, I bet you will find many that have few students in them/ You will also find majors that there are few jobs for after graduation from ISU.

 

[kingcy]

A lot of those research profs are spending their time away from teaching doing research, which pays the bills for the university far above their salary and helps keep tuition lower.

I would like to see the cost reward breakdown of this. There is a lot of overhead at ISU that increases the cost of everything. Much of that overhead has to do with the research that is taking place.

 

[RayShimley]

I would like to see the cost reward breakdown of this. There is a lot of overhead at ISU that increases the cost of everything. Much of that overhead has to do with the research that is taking place.

Most, if not all, major research grants have Indirect Costs built into them to cover overhead. These can range from 8-40+%, depending on where the funding is coming through. So, if a Professor gets a grant for $100,000, $8-40k of that is going straight to the Departments, Colleges, and University as a whole.

 

[jbhtexas]

I would like to see the cost reward breakdown of this. There is a lot of overhead at ISU that increases the cost of everything. Much of that overhead has to do with the research that is taking place.

The university takes an overhead cut from each research project, which more than pays for the overhead associated with that project. You might want to ask a research professor how much the university slices off of a research contract for overhead. It's been a number of years since I was at ISU, but even back then, money from research projects paid for all kinds of things used for undergradulate education.

I recently evaluated some research proposals for a professional organization. Some universities were taking nearly 50% for overhead, which shocked me. Back when I was in school, it was about 30%.

 

[mbbone]

Again, more self-serving rhetoric. People go to college for one purpose above the all others combined: to get the education and certification needed to pursue their chosen career. And that could be done in a lot less than 8-10 semesters.

If people wanted to stay longer and take more courses for their own enlightenment and edification, no problem. Of course they could do that. But it's ridiculous to say with a straight face that it's right for students be forced to do so for their own good.

You are describing an associates degree. Maybe you should go to DMACC and get one of those.

 

[CyFan61]

Think of the classes you took at ISU and how many of those did you really need to take to get a job in your field?

Take a look at the majors at ISU, I bet you will find many that have few students in them/ You will also find majors that there are few jobs for after graduation from ISU.

College is about more than job training. If you disagree, vocational school and community college are right up your alley. A B.S. and a B.A. are not meant to train you for a career, but to give you the opportunity to expand your intellectual boundaries (breadth of knowledge) with a particular emphasis in an area that interests you (your major, depth of knowledge).

It is also obvious from your following post that you do not understand how major research institutions, like Iowa State, operate. I really don't think you get the bigger picture of this issue.

 

[Senolcyc]

You are describing an associates degree. Maybe you should go to DMACC and get one of those.

Incorrect. Go back and read all of my comments.

 

[IcSyU]

Thank God the following mean something for my accounting degree:

History of Rock and Roll
Listening to Music
Intro to Sociology
Moral Theory & Practice
Golf
Bowling
Walking for Fitness
Human Sexuality
Library
Introduction to World Religions
Geology
Applied Computer Programming
Comparative Capitalism

That's 3 semesters of bloat I had to take just to get an accounting degree yet none of those will ever be used. This is also giving crap like stat 326 or business calc the benefit of the doubt for being useful. Unfortunately there isn't much at all between an associates degree from DMACC in accounting and a bachelor's from Iowa State minus the cost and career options because you have to have 150 credits for the CPA exam. I can totally understand taking all the business courses so you're a well rounded business person, but the rest of that crap is worthless. Those classes exist because the University knows employers will put a 4 year degree above a 2 year degree. I'll bet you if Universities magically got rid of the 4 year program and said I could get my accounting degree in 3 (the max you'd need), the employers would still hire me because it's from Iowa State. However, there's no incentive for Iowa State to do that when they know they can force you to take extra crap that's worthless.

 

[RayShimley]

Thank God the following mean something for my accounting degree:

History of Rock and Roll
Listening to Music
Intro to Sociology
Moral Theory & Practice
Golf
Bowling
Walking for Fitness
Human Sexuality
Library
Introduction to World Religions
Geology
Applied Computer Programming
Comparative Capitalism

That's 3 semesters of bloat I had to take just to get an accounting degree yet none of those will ever be used. This is also giving crap like stat 326 or business calc the benefit of the doubt for being useful. Unfortunately there isn't much at all between an associates degree from DMACC in accounting and a bachelor's from Iowa State minus the cost and career options because you have to have 150 credits for the CPA exam. I can totally understand taking all the business courses so you're a well rounded business person, but the rest of that crap is worthless. Those classes exist because the University knows employers will put a 4 year degree above a 2 year degree. I'll bet you if Universities magically got rid of the 4 year program and said I could get my accounting degree in 3 (the max you'd need), the employers would still hire me because it's from Iowa State. However, there's no incentive for Iowa State to do that when they know they can force you to take extra crap that's worthless.

How many of those courses were free electives? And how many were restricted electives (i.e., requirement of x credits in the humanities). It looks to me like you chose to pad your credits with a bunch of easy courses, wheras you could've taken more advanced accounting and business coursework if you chose.

So, basically, you're complaining about a bunch of classes you took for an easy grade not being useful to you in your carreer.

 

[CloneAggie]

Thank God the following mean something for my accounting degree:

History of Rock and Roll
Listening to Music
Intro to Sociology
Moral Theory & Practice
Golf
Bowling
Walking for Fitness
Human Sexuality
Library
Introduction to World Religions
Geology
Applied Computer Programming
Comparative Capitalism

That's 3 semesters of bloat I had to take just to get an accounting degree yet none of those will ever be used. This is also giving crap like stat 326 or business calc the benefit of the doubt for being useful. Unfortunately there isn't much at all between an associates degree from DMACC in accounting and a bachelor's from Iowa State minus the cost and career options because you have to have 150 credits for the CPA exam. I can totally understand taking all the business courses so you're a well rounded business person, but the rest of that crap is worthless. Those classes exist because the University knows employers will put a 4 year degree above a 2 year degree. I'll bet you if Universities magically got rid of the 4 year program and said I could get my accounting degree in 3 (the max you'd need), the employers would still hire me because it's from Iowa State. However, there's no incentive for Iowa State to do that when they know they can force you to take extra crap that's worthless.

Kind of sounds like you are blaming the university for some poor course selections that you made.

 

[CycloneErik]

Kind of sounds like you are blaming the university for some poor course selections that you made.

I think it's buyer's remorse. He was pretty pleased with those choices at the time.

 

[Max57]

On what? Where is this massive waste? Specifics, not generalities.

On a separate yet related note, also take note that the state ran a pretty nice surplus last year. But keep on cuttin'.

The surplus was just north of $50 million. That represents less than 1% of the overall budget. That could go away in the blink of an eye.

 

[Goothrey]

What's wrong with having a diverse education and being a more well rounded and knowledgeable individual?

 

[IcSyU]

How many of those courses were free electives? And how many were restricted electives (i.e., requirement of x credits in the humanities). It looks to me like you chose to pad your credits with a bunch of easy courses, wheras you could've taken more advanced accounting and business coursework if you chose.

So, basically, you're complaining about a bunch of classes you took for an easy grade not being useful to you in your carreer.

No, I was required to take all of the above to fulfill my degree. I would have loved to take more accounting classes but couldn't do so without having to go to school longer. Luckily all of that crap was required to meet US Diversity, humanities, etc.

The only required one was Moral Theory & Practice (Phil 230). The rest were taken because I needed to fulfill gen eds.

 

[Judoka]

No, I was required to take all of the above to fulfill my degree. I would have loved to take more accounting classes but couldn't do so without having to go to school longer. Luckily all of that crap was required to meet US Diversity, humanities, etc.

The only required one was Moral Theory & Practice (Phil 230). The rest were taken because I needed to fulfill gen eds.

And those were the only gen eds available?

Hint: The answer is no.

 

[IcSyU]

What's wrong with having a diverse education and being a more well rounded and knowledgeable individual?

Those classes are required so the University can justify keeping all of the departments. Like previously mentioned in this thread, statistics doesn't have very many students but they have to teach thousands. Are those thousands necessary? I'd argue probably not. I haven't used anything from stat 226 or stat 326 outside the class. Basically they're packaging crap together and forcing you to buy it all. I can't just buy MBB season tickets (business), I have to pay for football, MBB, WBB, etc. (all of the wasted general education classes).

 

[kingcy]

College is about more than job training. If you disagree, vocational school and community college are right up your alley. A B.S. and a B.A. are not meant to train you for a career, but to give you the opportunity to expand your intellectual boundaries (breadth of knowledge) with a particular emphasis in an area that interests you (your major, depth of knowledge).

It is also obvious from your following post that you do not understand how major research institutions, like Iowa State, operate. I really don't think you get the bigger picture of this issue.

I think for some college is about expanding your intellectual boundaries, but for others it is about learning about a given field so you are one step ahead of the next guy in the work place.

I understand how a research instituation works, but at some point the research gets in way of the education many pay for.