Where would you rank Prohm far as big 12 coaches go.

[psyclone51]

Not going to even attempt to rank the coaches....too subjective of a task.

I do know Coach Prohm is an honorable man that puts the interests of his players and my university above all. He represents ISU with class, has embraced the history and former players, and wants his teams to add to that history in a positive way.

All these knee jerk reactions and piling on is really not what I expect from Cyclone fans.....20 wins and headed to the tourney just sucks after finishing last in the league last year....

You said it well. And you said it better than I could. Thank you.

 

[psyclone51]

Yeah, Matt and Deonte both had the potential and pedigree, but neither had lived up to it by the time Prohm got here. Matt was coming off a pretty disappointing sophomore season. Nader was the same way, but not as highly regarded. Naz transformed from himself from a 3-point shooter to a guy who was also great at scoring at the rim. Monte was given the reigns to the team and prospered.

Most of the credit goes to the players for improving, and Wigginton hasn't developed like I wanted this year, but it's difficult to say that Prohm has been subpar when it comes to player development.

I can't believe what you wrote. That the development of the players was due to their own effort (which of cource was essential) and not due to Prohm's contribution. But LW's struggle may be due to the coach. I guess if you don't like a coach, any argument will work to prove you are right.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I assume when you say Fred didn’t hold players accountable you mean that he didn’t have McKay participate in practice every day after he complained of being injured. I understand the story I just didn’t know we were using it as a blanket statement that Fred was able to make not holding players accountable work.

Are there other circumstances where Fred didn’t hold players accountable outside of Jameel’s injury/non injury and practice.

I’m going to preface this by saying how much I appreciate what Fred did here. I enjoyed those teams as well even though they were incredibly inconsistent at times and had a lot of head scratching losses.


But

Really? Did you miss the first batch of transfers? Or are you purposefully trying to obfuscate it to protect some perceived image.

 

[CYdTracked]

Wow, I can't believe I am reading a cyclone fan quoting the Hackeyes "doing it the right way" Pretty sure that is what Hawkettes said when we were rolling with Fred and they were struggling with Fran.

Not even close, nice spin job there turning my comments into something they aren't. I can't believe we are even having this conversation, this will be the 3rd time in 4 years Prohm will take this program to the NCAA tourney and hes doing it with a total roster rebuild from last season pretty much. Hes building it with mostly HS recruits too. It's easy for people to bag on a team or coach after a bad loss but the body of work this season has not been a failure.

 

[Doc]

I can't believe what you wrote. That the development of the players was due to their own effort (which of cource was essential) and not due to Prohm's contribution. But LW's struggle may be due to the coach. I guess if you don't like a coach, any argument will work to prove you are right.

Well, that’s certainly not what I meant. I am happy to have Prohm as coach, and give him credit for the development of these guys earlier in the thread.

 

[madguy30]

I can't believe what you wrote. That the development of the players was due to their own effort (which of cource was essential) and not due to Prohm's contribution. But LW's struggle may be due to the coach. I guess if you don't like a coach, any argument will work to prove you are right.

No coach is going to look good if a player plays the kind of defense or rebounds like LW has this season at times...or offense, for that matter.

He's come along at times too, but vs. what you'd expect, woof.

 

[psyclone51]

Well, that’s certainly not what I meant. I am happy to have Prohm as coach, and give him credit for the development of these guys earlier in the thread.

Then I am sorry that I misunderstood you. My bad.

 

[rochclone]

I’m going to preface this by saying how much I appreciate what Fred did here. I enjoyed those teams as well even though they were incredibly inconsistent at times and had a lot of head scratching losses.


But

Really? Did you miss the first batch of transfers? Or are you purposefully trying to obfuscate it to protect some perceived image.

So rather than generalizing why don’t you give me examples of what Royce White, Chris Allen, Booker and Chris Babb did at Iowa State where you felt Hoiberg didn’t hold them accountable.

 

[BringBackJohnny]

I love the 20 wins and folks use that a lot to prop up this season as a success. But let's not gloss over the fact that this is the worst big 12 conference in maybe the last decade.

The team has talent. Not enough to win on talent alone. But plenty enough to be making a stronger push in down year.

All of the wounds this year appear to be self inflicted. When the fingers keeps getting pointed back to "our play" game after game the attention moves past the players to man in charge.

I have no issue with playing tough and picking up a tough L (we a number last year). But the issues under Phrom always seems to come back to "our play". If this is our issue then fix it but his remedies seem to be compounding the negative effects.

 

[Cat Stevens]

So rather than generalizing why don’t you give me examples of what Royce White, Chris Allen, Booker and Chris Babb did at Iowa State where you felt Hoiberg didn’t hold them accountable.

Ok you answered my question. You’re mission is to defend Fred’s legacy.

Whatever. That you want to think guys that had rough backgrounds before they came here and spent 2 years two plus years in Ames and didn’t have a single occurrence. That’s cool.

I don’t expect them to be angels, but then again I don’t have an agenda.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I love the 20 wins and folks use that a lot to prop up this season as a success. But let's not gloss over the fact that this is the worst big 12 conference in maybe the last decade.

The team has talent. Not enough to win on talent alone. But plenty enough to be making a stronger push in down year.

All of the wounds this year appear to be self inflicted. When the fingers keeps getting pointed back to "our play" game after game the attention moves past the players to man in charge.

I have no issue with playing tough and picking up a tough L (we a number last year). But the issues under Phrom always seems to come back to "our play". If this is our issue then fix it but his remedies seem to be compounding the negative effects.

Huh? It's weak at the top, but it's the arguably the top conference overall. Everything that flows from that falsehood should be disregarded as pure rubbish.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I love the 20 wins and folks use that a lot to prop up this season as a success. But let's not gloss over the fact that this is the worst big 12 conference in maybe the last decade.

The team has talent. Not enough to win on talent alone. But plenty enough to be making a stronger push in down year.

All of the wounds this year appear to be self inflicted. When the fingers keeps getting pointed back to "our play" game after game the attention moves past the players to man in charge.

I have no issue with playing tough and picking up a tough L (we a number last year). But the issues under Phrom always seems to come back to "our play". If this is our issue then fix it but his remedies seem to be compounding the negative effects.

This is dumb and you should feel dumb.

Just because the conference doesn’t have a dominant team doesn’t mean it’s bad. In fact this is as balanced as this league has been for a while with 8 teams looking at ncaa bids.

 

[rochclone]

Ok you answered my question. You’re mission is to defend Fred’s legacy.

Whatever. That you want to think guys that had rough backgrounds before they came here and spent 2 years two plus years in Ames and didn’t have a single occurrence. That’s cool.

I don’t expect them to be angels, but then again I don’t have an agenda.

Well if there were lots of occurrences in those years (for which they weren’t held accountable) then you shouldn’t have any trouble selecting an example to give me. But I would be shocked if you have an example.

 

[rochclone]

I love the 20 wins and folks use that a lot to prop up this season as a success. But let's not gloss over the fact that this is the worst big 12 conference in maybe the last decade.

The team has talent. Not enough to win on talent alone. But plenty enough to be making a stronger push in down year.

All of the wounds this year appear to be self inflicted. When the fingers keeps getting pointed back to "our play" game after game the attention moves past the players to man in charge.

I have no issue with playing tough and picking up a tough L (we a number last year). But the issues under Phrom always seems to come back to "our play". If this is our issue then fix it but his remedies seem to be compounding the negative effects.

All the data indicates the Big 12 is one of the top 2 conferences this year and will likely get 8 teams in the NCAA Tournament. It’s anything but weak.

 

[DiehardClone]

Ok you answered my question. You’re mission is to defend Fred’s legacy.

If you make an assertion, and somebody else responds by asking you to back it up with specifics, that puts the onus on you to ... um ... back it up with specifics.

 

[Cat Stevens]

Well if there were lots of occurrences in those years (for which they weren’t held accountable) then you shouldn’t have any trouble selecting an example to give me.

Why would i have cared. I actually root for Iowa state and want them to win. I don’t have to pretend things weren’t the way they were.

I know your mission is to somehow defend Fred’s legacy. I’m sorry for you he decided that he needed to leave Ames, and his dream job, so badly that he started interviewing for jobs after his third year.

The good news for you is when he gets another college job here this offseason, you will have a team to root for.

 

[Cat Stevens]

If you make an assertion, and somebody else responds by asking you to back it up with specifics, that puts the onus on you to ... um ... back it up with specifics.

Were you around the team?

 

[DiehardClone]

Were you around the team?

Yes and no.

 

[rochclone]

Why would i have cared. I actually root for Iowa state and want them to win. I don’t have to pretend things weren’t the way they were.

I know your mission is to somehow defend Fred’s legacy. I’m sorry for you he decided that he needed to leave Ames, and his dream job, so badly that he started interviewing for jobs after his third year.

The good news for you is when he gets another college job here this offseason, you will have a team to root for.

Why would i have cared. I actually root for Iowa state and want them to win. I don’t have to pretend things weren’t the way they were.

I know your mission is to somehow defend Fred’s legacy. I’m sorry for you he decided that he needed to leave Ames, and his dream job, so badly that he started interviewing for jobs after his third year.

The good news for you is when he gets another college job here this offseason, you will have a team to root for.

So you don’t have any specific examples. I’m sorry that you feel the need to respond to everyone of my posts. Fred is part of my Iowa State history as both a player and a coach. I think the narrative about not holding players accountable isn’t true and if you want to promote that narrative/agenda then the least you could do is present some evidence.

I’ve been a fan of Iowa State since 1985 when I was 8. So unfortunately you are probably stuck with me for 30 more years god willing. Not everything is a Prohm/Hoiberg issue. Some stuff is holding certain posters to facts. We should welcome that, not call posters names because of our insecurities just because they disagree.

 

[rochclone]

If you make an assertion, and somebody else responds by asking you to back it up with specifics, that puts the onus on you to ... um ... back it up with specifics.

Why would he need to do that. Easier just to call people names.