Agree with this 100%. The possessions where we struggle are when we get too comfortable with the 3 point line. One thing that we lack with our four guard line up is the willingness to back cut to the basket when a defender has his back turned. It's not that we can't, we just don't because we would rather spread them out. Both strategies work, but I wish we would mix in a little of both to keep defenses guessing.
Zone Offense Struggles
- Thread starter spierceisu
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Agree with this 100%. The possessions where we struggle are when we get too comfortable with the 3 point line. One thing that we lack with our four guard line up is the willingness to back cut to the basket when a defender has his back turned. It's not that we can't, we just don't because we would rather spread them out. Both strategies work, but I wish we would mix in a little of both to keep defenses guessing.
Watching Talley last night, he seems to struggle a bit when he is one of the "four out" setting up at the three point line. However, verses Texas, I was thinking he might be effective in the middle of the zone coming up to the free throw line, and then with his athleticism and length, he could drive, pass back out to a shooter spotted up at the three point line, or hit the mid-range jumper. So far this year we have mostly used THT in the high post against a zone, and at times then is looked like Shayock filled that role last night.
I think we're fine in general against the zone, especially if it's a more relaxed zone. Texas was playing a super aggressive zone and we knew where to go with it, Texas just had the length and athleticism to close passing and driving lanes faster. I'd say they're the only team that we've struggled with when they played zone. Baylor, despite playing a lot of zone, played man for most of the game against us, if I remember correctly.
We seemed to have issues when our offense turned stagnant with respect to the non-ball handlers not moving. The handler would take 10-15 seconds off the clock and then have to hurry the offense, often times causing an off-balanced shot. Other times the team lacked patience on solving the zone and rushed a too-quick 3, long rebound, and fast break by the other team. Still some very young parts on this team, so understand the lack of patience.
We miss Niang's passing ability when we face a zone. He was great at receiving the ball around the free throw line and lobing a dunk to one of our players flashing to the hoop from the sides.
Niang was the ultimate in the high post vs. zone. THT has shown he can do that too. LW attacked the soft spot in the 2-3 from the wing at will. ISU did well against the zone once they got rolling. I don't see teams running zone vs. ISU with great success with most lineups moving forward. To me if ISU has THT at the high post, Lard on the baseline for lobs, that's a good start. If Jacobsen is in for Lard he's got baseline jumpers available. Surround that with any 3 of Shayok, LW, Halliburton and NWB, and you are in good shape.
When he's out on the perimeter, I think the scouting report says back off just a bit and guard against the drive. That's not going to be real effective unless he is quick and decisive in looking to get into the paint.
One would guess teams are also thinking about playing off THT.
Talley’s seen so little time, including not too much last night, that at this point it would be hard for him to be in the flow and to be decisive. I don’t think we have much to go on.
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This team definitely has wasted possessions. I chalk it up to having a lot of young players in key roles. Heat checks may be ok in the 1st half, but it seems like we have a few guys that get a couple of buckets and think they need to launch during crunch time. Take the shot if it is there, but don't force it.
THT has shown enough from three to be a threat. Teams are still going to be closing out on him, whether they should be or not.
Skip passes and pass fakes. That's how you beat an aggressive zone. THT has been pretty good in the middle. Our shooters need to be ready to shoot on kickouts. There's nothing wrong with an inside-out three attempt early in the shot clock. Shayok and Wigginton's first instinct is to look for a drive, which gives the defense time to recover and increases chances of a turnover. Shayok's midrange game is so solid. I wish he'd pull up instead of always trying to get to the rim. Wigginton needs to watch tape of Frank Mason. There's no acrobatics, no dipsy dooing. He gets an angle and takes it strong into the defender. But anywho
True enough regarding Talley, though I think we've seen enough from last year to know that we don't want him shooting many threes, and the other teams definitely do.
It would be much easier to play against if everyone played it.
Nonetheless, in the history of basketball the weak spots against a zone are the high post and short corner. I would submit that ISU shot well against Ole Miss' zone because they were attacking those areas, especially with THT.
Is there that big of difference between 28% (Talley last year) and 29% (THT)? Talley only attempted 25 3Ps last year, so potentially teams feel like he won’t shoot, but THT has been equally as poor on a much larger sample, which anything should have teams also playing off him as bait.
I’m not advocating against THT’s role against the zone, more that I don’t think we can take much from a handful of plays from a guy like Talley. We can point to his shooting, but we we’ve played through guys shooting poorly for many games, if not the season.
By percentage, maybe not. By eye test, absolutely. THT does everything else that Talley does, better, with the possible exception of defensive awareness and ball security. Pretty clear to me that when you switch the two out, it's offense for defense.
THT's turnover percentage is really low. Not an issue with him even though at times he seems out of control but usually that leads to a missed shot and not a turnover
Yeah, I was wondering about that as I was typing. More of a compliment to Talley than a ding on THT.
Right, but the context isn’t about switching the two, but whether we can make an assessment on Talley’s ability in coming in for that role. I don’t think we have a valid sample, and shooting accuracy in itself rings hollow given other’s percentages.
But on that note, I’m guessing Talley would look a lot more equitable to THT than most realize, if also consistently getting 28 minutes a game and the green light to have that usage. He may even shoot better overall than THT’s 40.7% (he did last year). He’s a talented player imo, if we need him to be.
