My thoughts on Athlon picking ISU last in 2011

[agronclone]

A few thoughts from me when I read what nearly everyone is saying on these message boards. Everybody loves CPR and thinks he is going to turn the program around. Yet I struggle to find any cyclone fan that thinks ISU will finish better than 5-7, and those same people say that going 6-6 would be a good season. That is NOT turning our program around. Being the 3rd year of the CPR regime, my expectations are going up. I expect a winning season pretty much every season from here on out. Half the team are players his staff recruited. If we believe in CPR, like we supposedly say we do, maybe we should start expecting more wins, instead of the same 'if we go to a bowl game at 6-6, that would be outstanding!' All of these players that won't be on the team next year are not CPR's players. They were not recruited for the system that the coordinators run. Maybe now that more players are playing the game and running the system they were recruited for, maybe we can get into that upper level of the big 12 that we all supposedly think CPR will get us.

 

[ISUAgronomist]

So, basically, their thought process went something like this:

1. Sort teams by 2010 conference wins and then by division, with the south being ranked over the north.

2. Texas can't possibly be that bad two years in a row, so bump them up to the middle of the pack.

3. Ok guys, look good? What do you think? Is the simplicity of our ranking methodology too obvious? Yes? Ok, I guess let's put Mizzou over one of the 6-2 south teams so we don't look like total south division homers. Maybe one more tweak... hmmm... let's see... why don't we just flip-flop ISU and Kansas? Look good now? Good, I thought so too.

Brilliant!

 

[Tornado man]

I won't back down from this. Rhoads is the only coach in ISU history to beat Texas and he did it on the road after two embarrassing spankings to Utah and Oklahoma. Morale was down. He got the guys back up. It was a huge win for the program just a week after Texas went on the road to beat Nebraska.

That's fine - we just disagree then. ISU went 1-3 after Texas, the one win being KU. For this to be a "big win" to me, it must catapult the program to bigger and better things; to bring the team some confidence; to have some staying power. We'll see in the upcoming year if it has an effect I guess.

 

[isuno1fan]

Do I think we'll finish last?....NO

However we will be in a battle with about 3-4 other teams for spots 6-10 IMO.

 

[isuno1fan]

That's fine - we just disagree then. ISU went 1-3 after Texas, the one win being KU. For this to be a "big win" to me, it must catapult the program to bigger and better things; to bring the team some confidence; to have some staying power. We'll see in the upcoming year if it has an effect I guess.

and when did an Iowa win catapult ISU to bigger and better things? We traditionally underperformed in conference the years we were beating Iowa.

 

[Tornado man]

and when did an Iowa win catapult ISU to bigger and better things? We traditionally underperformed in conference the years we were beating Iowa.

Oh, I kinda think our comeback win at Kinnick, 24-14, in 2000 did us some good. You know, what turned out to be a 9-3 year and our first bowl win ever? Did you miss that one?
How about 2005, when we beat Iowa, ranked 10th at the time, 23-3 at JTS. We finished 4-4 in the Big 12, 7-4 overall, then lost by 3 to a very good TCU team in the bowl game. You must have missed that season too.

 

[CycloneChris]

So, basically, their thought process went something like this:

1. Sort teams by 2010 conference wins and then by division, with the south being ranked over the north.

2. Texas can't possibly be that bad two years in a row, so bump them up to the middle of the pack.

3. Ok guys, look good? What do you think? Is the simplicity of our ranking methodology too obvious? Yes? Ok, I guess let's put Mizzou over one of the 6-2 south teams so we don't look like total south division homers. Maybe one more tweak... hmmm... let's see... why don't we just flip-flop ISU and Kansas? Look good now? Good, I thought so too.

You forgot one thing.

4. If we put ISU last, we don't have to create a cover for them because they won't buy the mag, and we can just double up the Kansas/Kansas State cover.

 

[isuno1fan]

Oh, I kinda think our comeback win at Kinnick, 24-14, in 2000 did us some good. You know, what turned out to be a 9-3 year and our first bowl win ever? Did you miss that one?
How about 2005, when we beat Iowa, ranked 10th at the time, 23-3 at JTS. We finished 4-4 in the Big 12, 7-4 overall, then lost by 3 to a very good TCU team in the bowl game. You must have missed that season too.

In 2000 we beat no one of significance. Best win was on the road at CU. Got spanked in games that mattered plus Iowa sucked that year.

2005 was a HUGE letdown. That ISU team had more talent than any other squad under DMac and SQUANDERED the opporunity of a lifetime.

Sorry...keep trying.

 

[Clones85']

Oh, I kinda think our comeback win at Kinnick, 24-14, in 2000 did us some good. You know, what turned out to be a 9-3 year and our first bowl win ever? Did you miss that one?
How about 2005, when we beat Iowa, ranked 10th at the time, 23-3 at JTS. We finished 4-4 in the Big 12, 7-4 overall, then lost by 3 to a very good TCU team in the bowl game. You must have missed that season too.

We went 4-4 in a bad Big 12 that year and lost a lot of games we shouldn't have and you think the Iowa win catapulted us?

How about the other times we have beaten Iowa, did that catapult us? You know where we came back and beat Iowa 36-31 when Iowa went 11-1 that year? Oh yeah we lost 6 out of our last 7 games.

A big win is a big win. I don't know why an ISU fan would try and downgrade a big win for the program. We have a lot of kids on our team from Texas and we want to continue bringing in players from Texas. Beating Texas helps. I don't care the circumstances....it helps.

 

[ChrisMWilliams]

We have a lot of kids on our team from Texas and we want to continue bringing in players from Texas. Beating Texas helps. I don't care the circumstances....it helps.

Especially when you look at the future of the league and how many games Iowa State will be playing in that state over the next 10 years. Sure, beating KSU could have been a "bigger" win this year cuz they were in a bowl game and the Horns weren't. But perception wise for recruits, Texas takes the cake.

 

[CarolinaCy]

Oh, I kinda think our comeback win at Kinnick, 24-14, in 2000 did us some good. You know, what turned out to be a 9-3 year and our first bowl win ever? Did you miss that one?
How about 2005, when we beat Iowa, ranked 10th at the time, 23-3 at JTS. We finished 4-4 in the Big 12, 7-4 overall, then lost by 3 to a very good TCU team in the bowl game. You must have missed that season too.

The success of 2000 was more of a product of a really soft schedule that anything else. We played 3 conference teams that finished with winning records. We went 0-3, and got outscored 135-44 in those losses.

2005 was bigger and better? 2005 was a down year for the North, and ISU realistically should have won 9 or 10 games easily. We followed up the Iowa game with a W over Army, and then promptly opened Big XII play with 3 straight losses, including to a Baylor team who finished with a losing record. Yeah, that Iowa win really propelled us to the next level that year.

 

[Tornado man]

We went 4-4 in a bad Big 12 that year and lost a lot of games we shouldn't have and you think the Iowa win catapulted us?

How about the other times we have beaten Iowa, did that catapult us? You know where we came back and beat Iowa 36-31 when Iowa went 11-1 that year? Oh yeah we lost 6 out of our last 7 games.

A big win is a big win. I don't know why an ISU fan would try and downgrade a big win for the program.

You mean...like you just did with our past Iowa wins?

 

[Clones85']

You mean...like you just did with our past Iowa wins?

Ugh. I would never try and downplay those Iowa wins and their significance to the program like you did with Texas. I was just pointing out that you were false with that it didn't CATAPULT us onto better things. I guess you are right in that the Texas win didn't but neither did those Iowa wins. IMO all wins were big but by your standard it was not. Let's just disagree

 

[CarolinaCy]

You mean...like you just did with our past Iowa wins?

A win over Iowa doesn't equal a big win for the program. We've been proving that since 1998.

 

[Cyrocks]

and when did an Iowa win catapult ISU to bigger and better things? We traditionally underperformed in conference the years we were beating Iowa.

Oh, I kinda think our comeback win at Kinnick, 24-14, in 2000 did us some good. You know, what turned out to be a 9-3 year and our first bowl win ever? Did you miss that one?
How about 2005, when we beat Iowa, ranked 10th at the time, 23-3 at JTS. We finished 4-4 in the Big 12, 7-4 overall, then lost by 3 to a very good TCU team in the bowl game. You must have missed that season too.

I could be wrong, but I don't think ISU "came back" to win at Iowa in 2000. If I remember correctly, ISU had a 17-7 lead and held off Iowa. Rosenfelds was outstanding in this game.

Really, you can't pull out just two seasons to prove your point to isuno1fan. There have been plenty of times when ISU has beaten Iowa and not done anything. The 2002 season is an example of that. That is the Iowa game where ISU rallied after being down 24-7 at halftime. ISU did beat Nebraska the next week and TT the next ("The Run" game), but was then pummled by Oklahoma, lost a close one to Texas (ISU did make a first down, BTW), and lost the last three games to K-State, Colorado and UConn. That loss to UConn sent ISU to the Smurf field of Boise State for the Humanitarian Bowl instead of south to a better bowl.

 

[RayShimley]

You mean...like you just did with our past Iowa wins?

I think you just helped make their point. The fact that we had past wins against Iowa is a big reason that the win over Texas last year was so much bigger. No one can say ISU can't compete with any team in the B12 now on any given Saturday. Before, we actually had a team in OUR conference that we had NEVER beaten.

 

[cyclones500]

Sure, beating KSU could have been a "bigger" win this year cuz they were in a bowl game and the Horns weren't. But perception wise for recruits, Texas takes the cake.

If ISU was going to miss a bowl and I had to pick beating only one of those two teams, winning @Texas is a no-brainer. But the key is, can Rhoads use these types of isolated big wins (@NU; @Texas) into something bigger?

If ISU beats A&M or OU in '11 (let's pretend Athlon's ranking is correct) and has a losing record, eh, there starts to become a pattern. Beat a biggie and go to a slightly-better-than-Insight bowl, it's building. Two shocking wins and bowl w/ no bad losses — then that's some noticeable momentum.

And this isn't knocking the Nebraska & Texas wins (and so far, Colorado was Rhoads' only "bad loss*," and I'm not so sure that was as awful as it seemed at the time). It's just that head-turning wins are necessary for the short term, then you eventually have to turn another corner.

How many cliches did I use in this post? :twitcy:

* By "no bad loss," I mean the "lose to s***** team" loss, not the "lose by 41 at home" loss. :sad:

 

[clone4good]

Last is where i would pick us RIGHT NOW. To many questions. QB. WR are not explosive or fast enough. D-line hasnt been anything since the Berryman days. With no D-line it leaves the secondary out to dry (while losing David Sims.). Field Goal kicking blows. (missouri game is a good example of that).

Really the only positions i feel safe on is the LB group and the RB group, but again with no Line play it doesnt help them out either.

We need to get a couple juco d-linemen and wr in here to help out.

 

[cysocool]

I firmly believe that PR has a team that wins 7 or 8 games and finishes in the top half of the big twelve. 2011 will be Rhoads best season at ISU, so don't buy into the negative media.

 

[el tornado]

unfortunately it's justified to pick ISU last...

We have the lowest rated recruits, the lowest budget, and losing key starters.

Although it is motivational to be picked last, it is disturbing as that means we aren't doing some things very well

That said I hope we go to a bowl game and play Auburn and kick their ***