The dark side of women's recruiting

[mkcrawford]

I respect Bill F. for talking frankly, and I do not see any evidence that ISU plays an anti-gay card here. You can interpret language in many ways, and saying that a phrase like "family atmosphere or family environment" translates as anti-gay code could be seen as suggesting that gays are not family oriented or don't have families, both of which are untrue.

Agree 100%. I beleive that Coach is simply using the familial references to describe the support system he has put in place here at ISU. Imagine your daughter being recruited to play basketball out of state, away from a biological family support system she's known for 18 years. As Coach describes the "family environment", pictures of dinners with players at his house, Thanksgiving break basketball trips overseas, etc. fill your mind. Does this description put your mind at ease about your daughter playing for him in Ames? I'd wager to say it probably does for some parents.

Now, say you are a teenage homosexual who has been afraid to "come out" to your parents because of religious beliefs or community pressure. As Coach simply describes the support system as being a "family environment", might this make you feel more comfortable in being able to gain that freedom you haven't been able to? Might you think there may be a way for you to express who you are and with the support of coaches, players, staff, fans, etc. be confident in that expression?

I can't answer the second scenario, but as many on here have pointed out, there are a lot of young men and women that are in that situation that may find that comforting.

 

[cyeah]

Ask LSU how well having a lesbian coach worked out for them...


What the heck is puluuting anyway. Doesn't ESPN have editors?

 

[Kitkat]

I agree with your position completely but you have to at least wonder about homophobia in Iowa given the ousting of the 3 judges and the drive to reverse their decision on same-sex marriages.

Yes, but I was trying, probably futilely, to confine the topic to ISU's women's basketball because, as you can see, these threads have a tendency to leak in all sorts of directions. Maybe the better term is "drift." My notion of the women's game at ISU is that it is openly welcome to all. That is seen in the diversity of people who attend, ranging from little kids (boys as well as girls) on up to grandpas and grandmas. Secondly, the young women players respond to their fans (signing autographs, waving as they leave the court), and their practices are normally open to all. That is what I see as the "family" element, and for me at least it has little to do with sexual politics.

 

[gwoodclone]

Now, say you are a teenage homosexual who has been afraid to "come out" to your parents because of religious beliefs or community pressure. As Coach simply describes the support system as being a "family environment", might this make you feel more comfortable in being able to gain that freedom you haven't been able to? Might you think there may be a way for you to express who you are and with the support of coaches, players, staff, fans, etc. be confident in that expression?

I think this depends on the situation. As has been pointed out, politicians and other groups very often use 'family environment' or 'family values' as code for "I/we don't support gay people". I would personally be very wary of a coach going to great lengths to emphasize that. But, I think you could get a feel for exactly what they mean by that with some interaction with the coaches/players. So in some cases, yes, it could be a very comforting and positive thing.

Part of me wishes Coach would have just flat out said that he would be completely supportive of having a gay player/assistant in this article. But, as was also pointed out, that might make it seem like he was "being overly apologetic about something that they didn't do wrong, but want to make up for anyway." Just like when somebody says something homophobic and throws "...but I have gay friends!" on to the end. You don't believe them for a second, and it would probably have sounded the same if Coach had said something to that effect. It's a tough situation for him.

NYCy's post earlier in this thread was very reassuring with concern to where ISU/Coach Fennelly stands on this topic.

 

[cyclone13]

Part of me wishes Coach would have just flat out said that he would be completely supportive of having a gay player/assistant in this article. But, as was also pointed out, that might make it seem like he was "being overly apologetic about something that they didn't do wrong, but want to make up for anyway." Just like when somebody says something homophobic and throws "...but I have gay friends!" on to the end. You don't believe them for a second, and it would probably have sounded the same if Coach had said something to that effect. It's a tough situation for him.

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And it's hard to please everyone and with the recruiting jungle, sometimes it's catch-22: anything he says could be twisted by other recruiters. the only reassurance for the recruits is BF's excellent integrity and reputation.

 

[CyFaninPA]

Part of me wishes Coach would have just flat out said that he would be completely supportive of having a gay player/assistant in this article. But, as was also pointed out, that might make it seem like he was "being overly apologetic about something that they didn't do wrong, but want to make up for anyway." Just like when somebody says something homophobic and throws "...but I have gay friends!" on to the end. You don't believe them for a second, and it would probably have sounded the same if Coach had said something to that effect. It's a tough situation for him.

Yes, it's a tough situation for Coach Fennelly, but he'll move forward through it as he has done in so many other situations.

No need to get defensive about the article, just clarifying it with a simple, "Hey, I'm okay with gay folks" would work well. I'm not suggesting Coach Fennelly wear a rainbow tie at the next game! And I'm not suggesting that every conversation and pep talk with the team include a lesson on a history of exclusivity/inclusivity in athletics and in the world. However, I believe it is not too much to ask that coaches, players and administrators say the word gay in a positive manner when the opportunity presents itself. If it's not a big deal, then it's not a big deal. Say the word gay and say it's okay. If you cannot say gay or lesbian in a positive manner (in public or private) then you have made it clear that it is not okay.

Saying the word gay in a positive manner has absolutely nothing to do with political correctness or sexual politics. Instead, it simply means you understand gay folks exist and are valued.

 

[MNCyGuy]

Part of me wishes Coach would have just flat out said that he would be completely supportive of having a gay player/assistant in this article. But, as was also pointed out, that might make it seem like he was "being overly apologetic about something that they didn't do wrong, but want to make up for anyway." Just like when somebody says something homophobic and throws "...but I have gay friends!" on to the end. You don't believe them for a second, and it would probably have sounded the same if Coach had said something to that effect. It's a tough situation for him.

Yes, it's a tough situation for Coach Fennelly, but he'll move forward through it as he has done in so many other situations.

No need to get defensive about the article, just clarifying it with a simple, "Hey, I'm okay with gay folks" would work well. I'm not suggesting Coach Fennelly wear a rainbow tie at the next game! And I'm not suggesting that every conversation and pep talk with the team include a lesson on a history of exclusivity/inclusivity in athletics and in the world. However, I believe it is not too much to ask that coaches, players and administrators say the word gay in a positive manner when the opportunity presents itself. If it's not a big deal, then it's not a big deal. Say the word gay and say it's okay. If you cannot say gay or lesbian in a positive manner (in public or private) then you have made it clear that it is not okay.

Saying the word gay in a positive manner has absolutely nothing to do with political correctness or sexual politics. Instead, it simply means you understand gay folks exist and are valued.

I get that, but it's also ridiculous that the writer essentially tries to take away his ability to say "family" in a positive manner.

 

[CyFaninPA]

I get that, but it's also ridiculous that the writer essentially tries to take away his ability to say "family" in a positive manner.

Yes, it's hard to have the media present a nuanced view of things and I cannot imagine speaking to the media as often as Coach Fennelly is called on to do. I'm glad he agreed to speak on the record, that's what so many of us fans enjoy about Fennelly - his willingness to be accessible (in addition his love for Iowa State University and his commitment to academic success, though I don't understand his St. Louis Cardinals fandom. Go Cubs!)

 

[Sobchakcyclone]

Yes, it's hard to have the media present a nuanced view of things and I cannot imagine speaking to the media as often as Coach Fennelly is called on to do. I'm glad he agreed to speak on the record, that's what so many of us fans enjoy about Fennelly - his willingness to be accessible (in addition his love for Iowa State University and his commitment to academic success, though I don't understand his St. Louis Cardinals fandom. Go Cubs!)

What's nuanced about the media? They're clear that gay and lesbian participation should be mandated. Especially ESPN. And, any coach that uses speech or phrases that are "code" can't be tolerated. How tolerant would you be if he came out and said he doesn't agree with homosexuality? Sure, he can't, because he's at a public university. What if you're a top flight athlete and don't feel comfortable in participating with openly gay teammates? Where can you go?

 

[SenorCy]

I would like to add that this was not very well written. It is full of vague accusations and is attempting to drum up controversy to get attention.

 

[Royalclone]

Just what I was thinking.

While they're out there, some said in recent interviews, they could face fallout from the March resignation of Pokey Chatman from Louisiana State, following charges of what the university described for the first time as inappropriate sexual relationships between her and former players.

Tyra White at aTm was headed to play for LSU before Chatman stepped down. Gary Blair's gain.

 

[Three4Cy]

I get that, but it's also ridiculous that the writer essentially tries to take away his ability to say "family" in a positive manner.

Every team and coach in the country talks about the family atmosphere on their team.

 

[Yes13]

I couldn't really understand this article, but were they trying to put down Fennelly because he described his team as a family? I take that as meaning he cares for his players, and would do anything to help them out. How is he negatively recruiting? Gay/Lesbian coaches can care for their players too.

 

[MNCyGuy]

I couldn't really understand this article, but were they trying to put down Fennelly because he described his team as a family? I take that as meaning he cares for his players, and would do anything to help them out. How is he negatively recruiting? Gay/Lesbian coaches can care for their players too.

It was confusing. You almost got the impression that they were more in favor of Kim Mulkey's approach over Fennelly's, even though the gay Baylor player they interviewed for the article seemed to have a really terrible experience.

 

[creightonclone]

I lost a lot of respect for BF after this article. By pushing "family" down recruits' throats, he's implying he and his assistants are straight. Until just recently in Iowa, family equated to straight. I'm sure I will catch heat, but I don't care.

 

[MNCyGuy]

I lost a lot of respect for BF after this article. By pushing "family" down recruits' throats, he's implying he and his assistants are straight. Until just recently in Iowa, family equated to straight. I'm sure I will catch heat, but I don't care.

Well, I suppose there's always one person that will believe something just because you bothered to write it.

 

[fulll02]

As with everything else, people are going to see what they want to see about Fennelly. I have no idea whether he uses "family" as code for we're not gay, it's safe to come here. (Personally, as a gay person myself, that would sting a little.)

I've watched enough ISU WBB to know that he seems to be a smart and comptetive person. I'm guessing he throws "family" out there and knows that the recruits and their families are going to take that how they want. It hurts him more to clarify the how he would define the word. Also, he's been in the business for a long time. Long enough that he should have figured out if he had a problem with gays/lesbians in sports he shouldn't have picked the womens side.

In my gut, I keep going back to thinking that Fennelly would take with open arms a two headed, purple girl from Mars if she could drill 3's, score off the bounce, defend, and do it all with a team first attitude. But at the end of all of this, I keep reminding myself, that I don't go to ISU sporting events to watch the coach. I go to watch the team.

 

[kcdc4isu]

I lost a lot of respect for BF after this article. By pushing "family" down recruits' throats, he's implying he and his assistants are straight. Until just recently in Iowa, family equated to straight. I'm sure I will catch heat, but I don't care.

We have followed the womens team for over 10 yrs now and we feel we are part of this family even though we have no one from our family playing. Go to games out of town, see the number of non parents who follow the team. This is all part of what BF means by "family". The problem is there are to many people in this state due to things that have happened in our courts who have abused the word "family" and used it as a code word to push hatered towards people they do not like or understand. As stated in a laer post BF recuits people who want to play his style of basketball.

 

[Yes13]

I lost a lot of respect for BF after this article. By pushing "family" down recruits' throats, he's implying he and his assistants are straight. Until just recently in Iowa, family equated to straight. I'm sure I will catch heat, but I don't care.

I assume you are missing one of these

If not then I've lost respect for you. You are basically saying that gay/lesbians can't be part of a family. I've never equated "family" to meaning straight. I believe it means people that would do anything for one another. Kind of like a TEAM.

 

[creightonclone]

I assume you are missing one of these

If not then I've lost respect for you. You are basically saying that gay/lesbians can't be part of a family. I've never equated "family" to meaning straight. I believe it means people that would do anything for one another. Kind of like a TEAM.

Your definition is completely right. In my opinion, BF's definition is totally wrong. By stating he's married and his assistants were married during a time when gays and lesbians couldn't get married in Iowa, I believe BF was implying he only wanted straight players in program.

There's only one way to settle this: a lesbian player within the program has to go on record. If not, it's simply hearsay.