OU article...someone else cited it above as well. I also saw it cited on Cougarboard.
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OU article...someone else cited it above as well. I also saw it cited on Cougarboard.
Here's the thing about the Big 10: Jim Delaney masturbates at night thinking of ND in the Big 10.
The ONLY way to get ND in the Big 10 is if super conferences form and a school has to be in one to compete for a national title (and, as additional incentive, poaching the ACC means the ACC poaches the Big East - which destroys ND's home for non revenue sports).
If Delaney senses that going to the four super conference model will get ND, he'll do it, and he'll do it by convincing Big Ten presidents that they should get there by adding ND plus three academic power houses from the ACC (and the Big Ten presidents would love that for the CIC).
The ONLY way to get ND in the Big 10 is if super conferences form and a school has to be in one to compete for a national title (and, as additional incentive, poaching the ACC means the ACC poaches the Big East - which destroys ND's home for non revenue sports).
If Delaney senses that going to the four super conference model will get ND, he'll do it, and he'll do it by convincing Big Ten presidents that they should get there by adding ND plus three academic power houses from the ACC (and the Big Ten presidents would love that for the CIC).
I've been kicking scenarios around all week & as much as it's been great playing in the BigXII against top national competition in all sports, an implosion might be the best thing for State from both a competitive standpoint & looking at the possible TV deal coming for the BE - it could be fairly lucrative as well (certainly not BXII money but still very good).
Basketball - we could become a top team in a very good league w/access & definitive selling points for East Coast recruits....I Trust Freddy here.
Wrestling - offers an opportunity (others pointed out) to be an AQ conference for the tourney, w/access to very fertile recruiting grounds....could really help Jackson re-position the program nationally.
Football - a relatively weak conference, top to bottom. Would offer much more competitive games week in & week out, which IMO, could help develop & bolster a consistently successful program. Sure, the BE bowls aren't cream of the crop but the BXII tie-ins need to go somewhere & maybe the BE could attract a couple. Not to mention the ability to recruit a region of the country we never have had much presence in recently but obviously has potential. It would suck not getting the likes of UT & OU rolling through every few years, the fan's sake but I'd much rather be continually competitive in a league & develop the program by winning conference & bowl games....I Trust CPR.
Regional division/Travel costs - plenty of talk about increased travel costs but I've seen it stated a few different times by people pointing out that it wouldn't be much different than we currently spend. A division which would likely include KU, KSU & TCU plus prob Louis & Cinci for football plus a cross over game is probably not much different. While basketball would be roughly the same plus DePaul, Marquette & ND.
As for the rest of the non-rev sports, they all fit in line w/pretty much everything above for the other sports.
Have I gone completely whacky attempting to make sense of all this realignment talk or does this line of thought make sense to anyone else?
Basketball - we could become a top team in a very good league w/access & definitive selling points for East Coast recruits....I Trust Freddy here.
Wrestling - offers an opportunity (others pointed out) to be an AQ conference for the tourney, w/access to very fertile recruiting grounds....could really help Jackson re-position the program nationally.
Football - a relatively weak conference, top to bottom. Would offer much more competitive games week in & week out, which IMO, could help develop & bolster a consistently successful program. Sure, the BE bowls aren't cream of the crop but the BXII tie-ins need to go somewhere & maybe the BE could attract a couple. Not to mention the ability to recruit a region of the country we never have had much presence in recently but obviously has potential. It would suck not getting the likes of UT & OU rolling through every few years, the fan's sake but I'd much rather be continually competitive in a league & develop the program by winning conference & bowl games....I Trust CPR.
Regional division/Travel costs - plenty of talk about increased travel costs but I've seen it stated a few different times by people pointing out that it wouldn't be much different than we currently spend. A division which would likely include KU, KSU & TCU plus prob Louis & Cinci for football plus a cross over game is probably not much different. While basketball would be roughly the same plus DePaul, Marquette & ND.
As for the rest of the non-rev sports, they all fit in line w/pretty much everything above for the other sports.
Have I gone completely whacky attempting to make sense of all this realignment talk or does this line of thought make sense to anyone else?
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I think the real question is at what point does the Big East become a more stable/stronger conference than the ACC? As of right now, the ACC is a lot better off. 12 teams, nice TV contract, entrenched schools. But if the Big East were to mirror the PAC-12 and make a jump to 16 by adding ISU/KU/KSU/BU(or Houston)/UCF/ECU (or Memphis), that's a lot of market coverage.
The Big East rewrites their TV contract next year if I believe. Assuming the Big 12 is gone, there's going to be more competition to get the BCS conference contracts (= more money). When including the basketball schools, the new Big East would have firm coverage in metropolitan areas including:
New York City
Chicago
Houston (if Houston comes)
Dallas
Milwaukee
Cincinnati
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
Washington, D.C.
Tampa
Orlando
Providence
Des Moines/Omaha
That's not listing places like Boston, Indianapolis, Detroit, Baltimore, Charlotte and Jacksonville that would have fringe coverage. If ESPN wanted the rights to the BE and make a BE network, that is one HELL of a population coverage.
Meanwhile, the ACC has solid coverage in:
Boston
Baltimore
Atlanta
Miami
Raleigh-Durham
Washington, D.C.
and fringe coverage to a few more.
If this is really driven by money, then it looks to me that the Big East would be in a position of power where the teams in it would prefer to stay there.
This all boils down to how quickly this pot of **** boils over. If the Big Ten and ACC decide next week/ when the Big 12 blows that they want to go to 16, it's the end game. If they decide to sit back and see how a 16 team PAC and 14 team SEC do, I think there is an argument that the Big East would bump itself above the ACC.
With a number of fringe/l
The Big East rewrites their TV contract next year if I believe. Assuming the Big 12 is gone, there's going to be more competition to get the BCS conference contracts (= more money). When including the basketball schools, the new Big East would have firm coverage in metropolitan areas including:
New York City
Chicago
Houston (if Houston comes)
Dallas
Milwaukee
Cincinnati
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
Washington, D.C.
Tampa
Orlando
Providence
Des Moines/Omaha
That's not listing places like Boston, Indianapolis, Detroit, Baltimore, Charlotte and Jacksonville that would have fringe coverage. If ESPN wanted the rights to the BE and make a BE network, that is one HELL of a population coverage.
Meanwhile, the ACC has solid coverage in:
Boston
Baltimore
Atlanta
Miami
Raleigh-Durham
Washington, D.C.
and fringe coverage to a few more.
If this is really driven by money, then it looks to me that the Big East would be in a position of power where the teams in it would prefer to stay there.
This all boils down to how quickly this pot of **** boils over. If the Big Ten and ACC decide next week/ when the Big 12 blows that they want to go to 16, it's the end game. If they decide to sit back and see how a 16 team PAC and 14 team SEC do, I think there is an argument that the Big East would bump itself above the ACC.
With a number of fringe/l
There is a MAJOR difference between "markets you are in" and "markets you deliver".
If you have any questions on this, take a look at this:
Big Ten can learn from failed 16-team WAC expansion experiment - Andy Staples - SI.com
The main reason that the 16 team WAC failed was because they didn't distinguish between "markets they were in" and "markets they could deliver".
Just because you have a school in Orlando doesn't mean anybody cares to watch them play football. This was the rational behind the Big 10 adding UNL - they pull extremely strong TV ratings, even though they are in a small population state.
Good point, but the Big East certainly delivers the vast majority of those markets.
NYC
D.C.
Pitt
Philly
Chicago
Milwaukee
Kansas City
Tampa
Those are easily delivered. Easy. You have a solid point when it comes to Dallas and Houston but just those 8 will land the Big East a hefty TV contract.
Not sure if wrestling meets AQ requirements. Don't you need 6 members together for 2 years?
ISU
MU
Pitt
WV
?associate members
We'd lose OU and OSU, but probably still schedule them once a year.
I'm not really familiar with the other schools enough to make a statement like this, but I'm 100% sure that Syracuse doesn't deliver NYC (nor does Rutgers). If either of them did, both would have been Big Ten members as soon as the Big Ten Network opened its doors.
The only reason that Syracuse/Rutgers aren't Big Ten members is because they don't deliver the most valuable market in the country - which is right on their front door.
NYC is covered primarily from the basketball standpoint. While this is largely about football, basketball DOES matter in the Big East especially when we're talking TV contracts. No single school delivers NYC but there is enough saturation with conference teams that it is delivered. The bars in NYC during Basketball season always have BE games on. Of course you can find almost any game if you search, but deliverance wise, it's a Big East city.
Yeah, that's right....it's 2:30 in the morning here & I just finished grading papers, plus I was up early this morning to watch the game on CloneZone, so this is probably a sign I should go to bed.
I was probably just considering OU & OSU in the mix w/out realizing they wouldn't be (and prob thinking KU & KSU would be included when they obviously don't have squads).
Does Rutgers have a wrestling program? I can't remember & don't feel like looking it up.
Right. It would "deliver" NYC on the basketball side.
As far as college football goes...I'm not sure if anything really "delivers" the NYC market...but I don't know that it matters.
If the end game is either going to be the four 16 or 18 or whatever super-conferences, they will all draw huge TV bucks no matter what, simply because the networks will be fighting over each other so as to not be left out.
One will go to CBS, NBC (Versus) will win one, Fox, ESPN. The first-tier rights will bring in tons of cash.
(This is why ESPN will do everything it can to keep Texas from taking LHN to Pac-XX and to keep the Horns in a Big XII--fewer conferences, more expensive rights = bad for ESPN to keep freezing out the other networks).
Or you're just going to see more conference networks...where "delivering" the market has a much smaller impact. In conference owned network, you're getting paid by subscriber, instead of getting paid what ESPN thinks they can get back in ads.
Get on the NYC market at a $1 or $2 a subscriber, then add in ad revenue, laugh all the way to the bank.
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Agreed. But if the Big XII implodes, the Big East is our last shot at any real money.
Yes, they do have wrestling. I was looking at Pitt's schedule, for some reason RU and Pitt didn't schedule each other last year.
ISU
MU
Pitt
WV
Rutgers
Agreed but there TV contracts are up for renewal soon & I remember seeing they were in line for a decent payday; adding a few 'lesser' remnants of the BigXII couldn't hurt the deal. Again, not the money we would get if the conference stayed together but still much better than the options in conferences like the MWC, WAC, MAC, etc.
I was simply putting into words, my thoughts on what would likely be our best case scenario & how it could be a viable option.
First off, that first part of your post was hilarious about Delany, and very true.
But, what makes you so sure that ACC teams are just going to fall all over themselves to join the Big 10 or SEC? I honestly don't see any of them being super excited about the Big 10, and maybe only Florida State being jazzed about the SEC.
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Could they pick up UNI for wrestling or would they not be able to afford all that travel?
