A thought on Barnett

cykocy

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I also wonder if some of the problems we are having are just due to him being a sophomore. Many of the better QB's we've had didn't get the starters role until their junior season. The fanbase didn't make judgements about them until they had time to develop. While I'm not calling Barnett the next Rosenberg or Seneca, we need to realize that he isn't an upperclassman yet and he's only in there because of the lack of options available.

:realmad:
 

CycloneWarning

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He's thrown the ball how many times now? How many of them have been good passes? Maybe 10? Keep in mind the people who are catching punts and kicks before the game are throwing it 40 yards downfield just slinging it. I don't throw a football a couple hundred times a day and can throw it further than that. His arm strength is, very nicely putting it, poor. Watch when he throws a slant or the receiver screen...the ball floats out to the target instead of going to the target on a rope like it does when Jantz tosses it.

Against FBS teams, one of our QB's has 8 turnovers in 3 games (over 2+ per game). The other QB has 2 turnovers in two games, both against ranked teams.

One of our QB's had a -0.7 ypc average against Tulsa, a 2.9 ypc average against Iowa, and a 1.0 ypc average against TT. The other QB had a 3.3 ypc average against TCU and a 4.4 ypc average against KSU.

One of our QB's is 0-5 as a starter against Big 12 competition, the other QB is 4-3 with all three losses against ranked teams, and two on the road.

If you don't understand why one QB is now starting, your football IQ is pretty low. Wail all you want about arm strength.
 
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Wesley

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I suggest you go back and watch the replay of the K State game. I was all over Barnett on Saturday after the game, but rewatching the game last night he had no time to throw. He had guys in his face the whole day, which would explain the tipped balls. Saturday was the worst game all season for the offensive line. Hard to throw a good ball when you throwing it consistently off your back foot to avoid the rush. No running game + no pass protection = destroy the quarterback, which is short sighted. Go back and watch the TCU game when he had time to throw and had passing lanes and not 6'5" guys in his facemask and tell me how he did. He has some really nice throws. And to those that say the receivers arent getting separation, go back and watch Saturday and tell me how wide open Horne and Gary were all day, the crossing patterns were there all day. A little bit better protection on Saturday and we win that game going away.
I agree. I rewatched weach play,and JB did better than it felt at the game. Sometimes our receivers do not make very good attemots at catching the ball. I would like to see more diving for the ball.

JB had more time to throw than SJ happy feet did. He is a bigger threat to defenses IMO. I remain surprised at how poor we run the ball. Last year we had more long runs.
 

dualthreat

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Remember that post where you in essence told me to keep in mind the old adage that you can keep your mouth shut and let people think you're an idiot or open it and confirm it?

But at least you didn't cherry pick the one guy in the NFL who isn't tall and has success. I'm sure you'd also say we should have a shooting guard the size of Earl Boykins since he got to the NBA as well? We shouldn't bother recruiting post guys above 6'5" because Mr. Cato was a hell of an interior defender despite being that tall?

And last thing: I will eat my foot if Barnett is actually 6'1". Maybe with his cleats and his helmet on but there's no way he's 6'0" tall, let alone 6'1".

I only brought up brees as an example of a guy who does a great job of moving in the pocket to create throwing lanes. Short qbs have a definite disadvantage, but the few who are successful have to do just that.
 

CyFan3

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jared's arm strength is fine. he just needs to set his feet and put the ball on target. that will come with practice.

I am not saying he will ever win the heisman, just that he can and will improve vastly with more practice, and more practice as the guy.


The fact that u say bus arm strength is fine clearly shows how little u know....his arm strength is attrocious. His own coach even said he can't make all the throws!!
 

Clonefan32

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After he threw the interception on Saturday, he played like a guy who knew he had competition behind him. Whether or not CPR would have pulled him, I don't know, but I doubt it. However, what I saw was a player who was content with throwing the ball at people's feet rather than taking a shot downfield. This approach is fine in the first three quarters, but when it came time to make a play he was still playing very tentatively.
 

dualthreat

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The fact that u say bus arm strength is fine clearly shows how little u know....his arm strength is attrocious. His own coach even said he can't make all the throws!!

His arm strength isn't great, but its good enough to win games in the big 12. It's equally as good as collin kleins. JB doesn't throw the ball with near the velocity of steele, but he gets rid of the ball on time and makes better decisons. With a little more work he can continue to win us games.
 

CycloneWarning

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After he threw the interception on Saturday, he played like a guy who knew he had competition behind him. Whether or not CPR would have pulled him, I don't know, but I doubt it. However, what I saw was a player who was content with throwing the ball at people's feet rather than taking a shot downfield. This approach is fine in the first three quarters, but when it came time to make a play he was still playing very tentatively.

Except for the fact that JB led the team on a 13 play, 75 yard touchdown drive into the 4thQ that included completions of 10 yards to Horne, 27 yards to Horne, 9 yards to Young, 12 yards to Johnson, and 4 yards to Horne......well, yea, ignoring those facts, you might be right.
 

cyclones500

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Except for the fact that JB led the team on a 13 play, 75 yard touchdown drive into the 4thQ that included completions of 10 yards to Horne, 27 yards to Horne, 9 yards to Young, 12 yards to Johnson, and 4 yards to Horne......well, yea, ignoring those facts, you might be right.

Forget the positives :jimlad:

The choosing-sides aspect among fanbase of this QB competition has ended up as nitpicking. Player A isn't good enough at (X), but the counterpoint is he's better than (B) at that but worse at (Y) and so on.

So what happens is, examples such as yours are downplayed in favor of pointing out the flaws (and it's that way with both Jantz & Barnett).

In all 3 touchdown drives vs. KSU, the offense looked well-oiled. It was fun to watch.

We simply need more of those each game.

Part of it's QB consistency & effectiveness, as well as minimizing penalties and turnovers, good line play, effective rushing game, dependability of receivers, getting first downs, good punting/field position when needed, confidence with placekicker and game plan that plays to ISU's strengths and can best exploit opponent's shortcomings (each adapted to specific opponent when necessary).

That's a lot of Stuff.

If all of that comes together better under one QB than another one, you go with that player as the starter.

Edit: Red zone efficiency, too.
 
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Cloned4Life

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Against FBS teams, one of our QB's has 8 turnovers in 3 games (over 2+ per game). The other QB has 2 turnovers in two games, both against ranked teams.

One of our QB's had a -0.7 ypc average against Tulsa, a 2.9 ypc average against Iowa, and a 1.0 ypc average against TT. The other QB had a 3.3 ypc average against TCU and a 4.4 ypc average against KSU.

One of our QB's is 0-5 as a starter against Big 12 competition, the other QB is 4-3 with all three losses against ranked teams, and two on the road.

If you don't understand why one QB is now starting, your football IQ is pretty low. Wail all you want about arm strength.

One of our QB's played most of the A&M game last year, so you can add that loss to his column.
One of our QB's couldn't beat out the other QB in 2 training camps and essentially a bowl preparation. Do the coaches have a low football IQ?
And we beat 3 of the 4 worst defenses in the league last year. It's not like our offense was some juggarnaut.
One of our QB's is 6-0 in non-conference games (which count, by the way), including 2-0 against Iowa, a defense ranked above the defenses we beat in conference a season ago.

Put me in the low Football IQ category also - I understand why one of the QB's is starting/playing a lot right now, but I don't fully understand why the other one isn't playing some too.
 

Ficklone02

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Tell me where my logic is flawed. He has never shown the ability to throw consistently at this level. Never at this level has he completed 60% of his passes (which is brutal considering the majority of the passes we throw are within 10 yards of the LOS) in a game.

Routes which require a pass to be roped into an area he struggles mightily with. Routes which require more touch he throws better (like the corner route were obsessed with throwing). Roughly half of his passes are at the ankles of the intended target. That's an arm strength problem. He has the mental part of the game down, the physical part is holding him back.

This year thus far on second down he's an excellent passer. One anything other than second down he's terrible. Last year he was consistently bad across all downs.

I don't think alot of the throws at the ankles are due to poor arm strength. I think he's coached that way to throw it low so as to avoid tipped ball interceptions. Especially againt K-state. They have made a huge living off of tipped ball interceptions against other teams. Very smart on the part of our coaching staff IMO.
 

dualthreat

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Jared led the O to three straight 500 yard games. Blame poor defense if you want...
 

snowcraig2.0

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I guess to me, arm strength was the last thing I thought was causing his struggles Saturday.

Much like Steele, I think the majority of his problem lies in his cranial cavity.
 
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carvers4math

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Even though his completion rate was similar to TCU game, I thought our receivers caught more of those ankle throws against TCU than they did against KSU. I guess missing low is less dangerous, but even if you get a fabulous catch, you aren't getting any yards after catch.
 

KPeaches6

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He's thrown the ball how many times now? How many of them have been good passes? Maybe 10? Keep in mind the people who are catching punts and kicks before the game are throwing it 40 yards downfield just slinging it. I don't throw a football a couple hundred times a day and can throw it further than that. His arm strength is, very nicely putting it, poor. Watch when he throws a slant or the receiver screen...the ball floats out to the target instead of going to the target on a rope like it does when Jantz tosses it.

Don't ever talk of Jantz again. He's awful and that's the reason he doesn't play anymore.
 
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CycloneVet

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Good news for this offense--> its gets to play 2 of the worst defenses in the country in the next 2 weeks. Since JB likes to feast on poor defenses then woohoo, I look forward to being 6-2.
 

SpokaneCY

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jared's arm strength is fine. he just needs to set his feet and put the ball on target. that will come with practice.

I am not saying he will ever win the heisman, just that he can and will improve vastly with more practice, and more practice as the guy.

Just like SJ did? I think a kid is talented or he isn't at this level. Tebow has unlimited resources and he's never going to be mistaken for a QB.