I really hope coach PR will make some changes.

[clonedude]

Scheme is fine. Teams all over the country are running our scheme and getting great results. Those teams have great qb's and fast/athletic recievers. Us not as much. The end.

This sums it up pretty much IMO.

The defense will be fine IMO under coach Burnham. I didn't like that they pretty much gave up in the 2nd half yesterday, but after a while you just know the offense isn't going to do anything, so it gets increasingly hard to get up for every play.

As for the offense... you MUST have a stud at QB... PERIOD! You name me a great college football team that has a mediocre QB? Heck, name me a great ISU team from the past that didn't have a stud QB? When we were good we had either Sage or Seneca. Look at Auburn with Cam Newton vs. Auburn without Cam Newton.

And K-State this year just happens to have the leading Heisman candidate playing QB for them. Who cares if he was a highly rated recruit or not... he's REALLY good. Sage and Seneca weren't highly rated either. You basically have to get lucky and find out that one of your 3 star QB recruits just happens to be a 5 star QB once he gets on your campus.

And we know that Steele and JB are not very good. They've both had plenty of chances to prove themselves, and neither is what you need to win with in this league. Steele just made some terrible throws again yesterday that I hadn't seen him do in the last couple of games. He had some WR's open yesterday and missed them badly time and time again.

As for WR's... I've decided that Bundrage is the best we have right now, and it might not be that close even. He is the only WR that is playing for us right now that scores on the TD play he had yesterday IMO. Jarvis West has some potential, but his size is just very limiting for him. The good news though, is I think we have some potential stud young WR's on our roster in Bundrage, Ecby, Quan West, JQ Daniels, Dondre Daley, and PJ Harris. Combine them with Albert Gary and Jarvis West, and you could have something next year.

RB IMO, is probably the most overrated. Just get a guy that runs hard, and if you have a good OL, you'll be fine most of the time. Yes, it's nice to have a guy with great speed and great moves, but it's not needed for success IMO. Look at Weisman for Iowa. Guy just runs hard. He's nothing flashy whatsoever, but yet was running for nearly 200 a game for a while there for them.

And OL is very important of course, but you can get by with an average OL if you have a stud QB IMO. QB is the most important position on the team. If you have Cam Newton you can win a ton of games with an average OL. If you have Steele Jantz, you just can't. No offense to Steele, I think he gives it his all on every single play, he just isn't Cam Newton, or Sage Rosenfels, or Seneca Wallace.

 

[Alcyclone]

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but it is not that CPR is not a good coach, or the assistants are not good, or that we don't do this or that or play the right people. It is that we are seeing the play of 4 or 5 star players versus our 2 star. It is not that I am not proud of our players and what they do. They just don't have the size, speed and ability to play winning football in the Big 12 conference. As much as I love CPR and ISU we need to get used to being near the bottom of the league strictly on a talent level because the really good players are going elsewhere. I heard CPR's pregame show when he said that not 1 ISU player was offered a scholarship to Texas and it showed.

 

[clonedude]

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but it is not that CPR is not a good coach, or the assistants are not good, or that we don't do this or that or play the right people. It is that we are seeing the play of 4 or 5 star players versus our 2 star. It is not that I am not proud of our players and what they do. They just don't have the size, speed and ability to play winning football in the Big 12 conference. As much as I love CPR and ISU we need to get used to being near the bottom of the league strictly on a talent level because the really good players are going elsewhere. I heard CPR's pregame show when he said that not 1 ISU player was offered a scholarship to Texas and it showed.

I'm beginning to think this is true. I posted weeks and weeks ago that I thought Rhoads' recruiting strategy was a good one in that he got players that were hard workers and that would be All In, but I'm thinking now that this just isn't enough. At least not at the skill positions that is.

I think on the OL and the interior of the DL you can get by with just having really hard working, nasty guys that bring it every play. Outside of that, you need athletic talent all over the field.

As I said in another thread though, if you have a stud QB, that can make an average offense be great IMO. Just look at KSU or Texas A&M this year. KSU would be nothing without Klein. Seriously, they'd be a .500 team this year without one guy on their team, and that is their QB. Same with A&M. Without Manziel, they are an average offense most likely. He just made play after play yesterday that nobody else makes IMO. Nick Saban basically said after the game yesterday that there's just not much you can do against a kid like that who is making Superman plays all over the field against you.

A great QB would make our offense look a LOT better. I just hope that either Sam Richardson or Grant Rohach are that kind of QB.

 

[cydsho]

So if our athletes can't run the system, why do we keep running it 100% of the time? We were supposed to have been deep at running back and i believe we are averaging over 4 yards a carry. Why can't a few set running plays out the form or 2 back set? Are we forbidden from mixing with zone read?
If you had a bball team with no one over 6'5" would you constantly pound it in the middle against 7 footers? I just don't get it. You can't tell me the off line wouldn't like to just run block on several plays for woody.

 

[Cyrok]

There is no imagination to our offense and thinking you can play straight up in the Big 12 with inferior talent is ludicris. It seems like Mess is out of touch/ Has no feel how to call a game more often then not.
It seems like so often we will get on a role and then stops dead cause of a bad play call. Texas offense mixes things up better then we do and they have superior talent.
I want Mess to stay on as a coach some how but a new OC is in demand.

The Line coaches need a serious 4yr evaluation. So far Bliel and Brey have shown me NOTHING other then why they were at Akron and Temple. The DL is just pathetic and the OL is not that great. I NEVER see improvement as the year goes on in those positions except on the other teams. And the only player development seems to be from the weight lifting end.

Our WR have regressed a ton leaving a BAD impression of the new WR coach he hired.

I appoligize in advance if you don't like my point of view. But if you disagree I'd like an civil discussion on why you think I'm wrong on my opinion.

I didn't read through the whole thread, so I'm sorry if this has already been addressed. I'd say that the DL HAS gotten better over the course of the season during each of CPR's years here. The OL has been frustrating and disappointing to me this year. They cut out the holding and false start penalties (which were 80% Osemele and Hicks), but don't consistently give time to throw and run blocking has been poor (maybe Osemele and Hicks were 80% responsible for that?)

I'd like to see all of the current coaches stay on for another 2 years and judge performance at that time. I'm interested to see if Sam Richardson or Grant Rohach can be special and how that might change the whole offense.

Also, I am going to take everything Coach Bliel says in the preseason as "coach-speak". He lost a lot of credibility with me after his statements 4 months ago had me excited about his group.

 

[Clonefan94]

It's not entirely the fault of our OC. It's our QB and OL. Our QB can't make a pass and our OL can't give him enough time.

I don't remember when the players showed up and forced the coaches to recruit them. I'm sorry, personnel is not the excuse. They recruited them, in fact, weren't we told this was one of the best lines at the beginning of the season? If you can't get the kids you need to run your offense, then you have to adapt. 4 years and the offense has gotten worse every year. At best it's the same thing that everyone kept telling me I had to be patient and wait for the players to fit the system. When can we start blaming the system? If the players aren't there now, they aren't going to be. It would be different, if the O showed any life against a D with a pulse. 7 points against Texas, are you kidding me?

I hate to bash the players because they were recruited to play here, weather the coaches made the wrong decision or the players aren't getting it done comes down in the end to the same thing. Coaching is lacking on the offensive side of the ball. This isn't high school where you are stuck with the kids in your district.

 

[Swanson10]

Can anyone here say coach Wells has earned the right to stay? Neither one of the positions he has coached has done crap in his time here. I wasn't ok with the hire when it was made and it needs to be addressed sooner than later.

 

[CycoCyclone]

OC is also QB coach, that's 2 strikes right there

 

[dualthreat]

Our O line can't block 7 with 5. Texas blitzed all day because they knew we didn't have a WR or Qb that can exploit single coverage. Just don't put it all on one guy or one coach or one position group. If we had a superstar on this team, we'd win 10 games. Rhoads does a nice job recruiting a good core group of guys, but needs to recruit 1 big time guy for yhe offense.

 

[MJ271]

Clonedude, your last two posts are the best and most logical I've ever seen from you. I'm proud, your getting more mature by the minute

 

[kingcy]

Our O line can't block 7 with 5. Texas blitzed all day because they knew we didn't have a WR or Qb that can exploit single coverage. Just don't put it all on one guy or one coach or one position group. If we had a superstar on this team, we'd win 10 games. Rhoads does a nice job recruiting a good core group of guys, but needs to recruit 1 big time guy for yhe offense.

This. He has done more with less the past few years. It is hard to get the 4 and 5 star guys to ISU, he can but it will take time.

 

[CyCy]

We have been over .500 in conference play twice in the last 32 years. In case nobody noticed we weren't exactly dominating the league before Rhoads got here.

 

[Yellow Snow]

I don't think our OC is the problem. The problem is the fact that we don't (for whatever reason) don't make the plays that ARE THERE!

We have such a small margain of error here, and need to just execute when given the opportunity. We've had guys open... we've had good plays called against the blitz... we just seem to shank it more often then not.

Think about how the course of some games could have been changed had a QB been able to throw a ten yard pass to a wide open guy without bouncing it in there (JB vs KSU). Or when the guy actually hits the receiver on the hands he catches it...

I mean... wow. If JB hits Shontrelle on that pass near mid field... down 6 to KSU late in the game...

The play calling isn't the problem. The problem is that we don't make the plays when they are there.

 

[Wesley]

I understand wanting changes made but with coordinators if you have 3 different in 3 years it can have an effect on recruiting. Now that I said that how about someone taking Greg Davis, anyone?

Why doesn't KF just swap his OC with the line coach position. No diff in the end.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Changes need to be made. The offense has let the program down the past 4 seasons.

The scheme may work elsewhere, but it has not worked here. If it takes at least 5 years (likely more) to get to average, you picked the wrong scheme. Unfortunately, that mistake was made long ago. Going forward, is it best to stick with it? Not in my opinion. It likely ISU will always struggle to get the type of skills that make this offense successful.

 

[kingcy]

Changes need to be made. The offense has let the program down the past 4 seasons.

The scheme may work elsewhere, but it has not worked here. If it takes at least 5 years (likely more) to get to average, you picked the wrong scheme. Unfortunately, that mistake was made long ago. Going forward, is it best to stick with it? Not in my opinion. It likely ISU will always struggle to get the type of skills that make this offense successful.

The offence have been down the last 10 years. 5 OCs and schemes later the offense still doesnt work well. 10 years ago fans wanted Looney and his pro style plan fired, then Mr Wallace showed up on campus and now fans would take him back in a sec. 8 years ago fans when Fine and his pro style was fired the fans wanted the spread. Barry Cotton was hired, brought the spread to ISU and well it didnt work well, fans wanted more of a spread. Mac was let go and Mcfarland was hired, Mcfarlands system was set up to be high paced throw the ball all over. That didnt work and fans wanted him fired. He was let go fans were raving when Herman was hired they guys style was crazy kick *** did every and anything, yet fans cheered as he left to OSU.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

The offence have been down the last 10 years. 5 OCs and schemes later the offense still doesnt work well. 10 years ago fans wanted Looney and his pro style plan fired, then Mr Wallace showed up on campus and now fans would take him back in a sec. 8 years ago fans when Fine and his pro style was fired the fans wanted the spread. Barry Cotton was hired, brought the spread to ISU and well it didnt work well, fans wanted more of a spread. Mac was let go and Mcfarland was hired, Mcfarlands system was set up to be high paced throw the ball all over. That didnt work and fans wanted him fired. He was let go fans were raving when Herman was hired they guys style was crazy kick *** did every and anything, yet fans cheered as he left to OSU.

Given fans is analogous for a few people on a message board in your post, I have no doubt you have anecdotal evidence that there is not an offense that will make everyone on CF happy.
Good thing there are other, more factual metrics to analyze the effectiveness of ths offense. Like the fact Loney was not at ISU in the past 10 seasons and that we have not had 5 different schemes.

 

[megamanxzero35]

I would really like to see us move away from the zone read. It puts too much pressure on the QB to make the offense run well. If you think about it, our QB is in charge of passing game(as he should be) and the rushing game. If he can't run the zone read then your rushing game suffers and puts more pressure to pass.

Obviously I don't have stats to back this up but I think most would agree that we run better when running out of the pistol formation, 2 back set, and diamond formation. Why? Generally those plays are designed runs where the RB will always get the ball. No QB option.

I don't think it is the spread that is the issue. I think it is the version of the spread we use. I think trying to find an accurate passing, mobile QB is harder than just finding an accurate passing QB.

 

[kingcy]

Given fans is analogous for a few people on a message board in your post, I have no doubt you have anecdotal evidence that there is not an offense that will make everyone on CF happy.
Good thing there are other, more factual metrics to analyze the effectiveness of ths offense.

My point is it seems no matter the OC and the system the team has ran the past 10 years the offense doesnt seem to work great.

 

[EvilBetty]

With the personnel ISU has to work with, changes will do very little unless a Cam Newton type player "miraculously" ends up in Ames......

we had cam newton in seneca wallace form once upon a time. it helped, but we were still exposed as his senior season progressed...er...regressed. even a great QB can only do so much with so little.

wallace was even the heisman frontrunner midseason. then everyone realized there were 10 other players on the offense that could be exposed.

we simply need an upgrade in talent across the board. as if that is actually simple.