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ChampFantana

Active Member
Jan 30, 2009
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GTO said:
There are some people that absolutely think conference tournament results are important (Jay Bilas for one) and some that do not care. However, those are just people's opinions, the fact is that they do matter and the selection comittee does take those results into account when determining seeding. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.
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Why haven't you been able to come up with examples of where the Conference Tournament significantly affected KU's seeding?
 
twocoach

twocoach

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2014
5,335
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Omaha
GTO said:
There are some people that absolutely think conference tournament results are important (Jay Bilas for one) and some that do not care. However, those are just people's opinions, the fact is that they do matter and the selection comittee does take those results into account when determining seeding. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.
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We aren't stating that they don't matter to everyone. We all agree that the selection committee factors those games into seeding. I just haven't seen a clear, specific example of losing in a conference tourney mattering to the seeding of Kansas in at least the last decade. There's only 4 seasons in the last 10 to look at so the sample size is admittedly small. But feel free to show me a specific example of KU losing out on a higher seed because they didn't win the conference tourney.
 
P

PullnPray

Member
Feb 26, 2013
76
1
8
GTO said:
There are some people that absolutely think conference tournament results are important (Jay Bilas for one) and some that do not care. However, those are just people's opinions, the fact is that they do matter and the selection comittee does take those results into account when determining seeding. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.
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And I never argued otherwise. As I just said, they can affect seeding. Each of the 5 times that KU has been a #1 seed under Self, they won the conference tournament. But I think in those years if we had lost the conference tourney, we might have still been a 1 seed, or at worst a 2 or 3.

Every game you play can affect your seeding. When I say I don't put much value in conference tournament championships, I am talking about their value as an end in themselves, not a means to an end.
 
P

PullnPray

Member
Feb 26, 2013
76
1
8
twocoach said:
We aren't stating that they don't matter to everyone. We all agree that the selection committee factors those games into seeding. I just haven't seen a clear, specific example of losing in a conference tourney mattering to the seeding of Kansas in at least the last decade. There's only 4 seasons in the last 10 to look at so the sample size is admittedly small. But feel free to show me a specific example of KU losing out on a higher seed because they didn't win the conference tourney.
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We were #2 seeds in 2003, 2012, and 2014. I think we probably would have been a #1 seed in each of these years had we won the conference tournament.
 
GTO

GTO

Well-Known Member
Mar 25, 2014
29,326
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North DFW, TX
You know what I found odd? When I watched the game at AFH, I did not see one "We Want Kentucky" sign (or even "We Want Temple" for that matter). Strange...
 
Spanky

Spanky

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2009
3,323
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twocoach said:
It is disappointing when KU loses at any point in the the tourney. I have already stated that it's a bummer when they lose earlier than anticipated but that I don't sweat it much knowing that they'll have a great shot at contending the next year. as for the national perception, meh. Don't care. My theory is that people get mad at the the teams that screw up their office brackets. KU, Duke and Syracuse have jacked up some serious brackets in the last ten years so it sticks in peoples memory. No biggie. And I invite you to check your math (and your spelling) on your "less than 2 wins per tourny" shtick. Probably shouldn't use all time records considering the entire tourney was only a few rounds originally. Self is 28-10 in the tourney in 11 seasons at KU which works out to more than 2.5 wins per year.
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Tuco, Tuco, Tuco, ya just can't bring yourself to say it, can you? Don't change, we love you just the way you are...slightly delusional, but entertaining.
My numbers are correct, and if it makes the truth easier to embrace by cherry picking timeframes vs KU's body of work, you stick with that.
Try checking only the even years, maybe the numbers will improve to 2.1 average tourney wins. Any way you slice it, KU underperforms. I won't hold my breath waiting for a KU fan to admit it's true.
Oh, and when your rebuttals include comments about spelling? Its a sure sign you've lost the argument.
 
twocoach

twocoach

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2014
5,335
28
48
Omaha
Spanky said:
Tuco, Tuco, Tuco, ya just can't bring yourself to say it, can you? Don't change, we love you just the way you are...slightly delusional, but entertaining. My numbers are correct, and if it makes the truth easier to embrace by cherry picking timeframes vs KU's body of work, you stick with that. Try checking only the even years, maybe the numbers will improve to 2.1 average tourney wins. Any way you slice it, KU underperforms. I won't hold my breath waiting for a KU fan to admit it's true. Oh, and when your rebuttals include comments about spelling? Its a sure sign you've lost the argument.
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Cherry picking time frames? That's not "cherry picking"; it's using the data that is actually RELEVANT to the discussion. Prior to '79 the field was half the size of today or less and didn't expand to this many rounds until '85. Good grief.
 
C

ChampFantana

Active Member
Jan 30, 2009
522
86
28
We've seen the "we can't finish ahead of you so you must be cheating" take. Now it appears it's moved on to "well yeah, you'll finish ahead of us again, but you couldn't beat those OTHER teams." You guys are the best.

The funniest part of it is when you saw KU get whipped by UK and Temple, you thought ISU had a chance in the Big 12 this year.
 
NATEizKING

NATEizKING

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2011
19,696
12,170
113
Hilton
ChampFantana said:
We've seen the "we can't finish ahead of you so you must be cheating" take. Now it appears it's moved on to "well yeah, you'll finish ahead of us again, but you couldn't beat those OTHER teams." You guys are the best.

The funniest part of it is when you saw KU get whipped by UK and Temple, you thought ISU had a chance in the Big 12 this year.
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I'd still think that had we not lost to Tech.
 
GTO

GTO

Well-Known Member
Mar 25, 2014
29,326
39,914
113
North DFW, TX
ChampFantana said:
We've seen the "we can't finish ahead of you so you must be cheating" take. Now it appears it's moved on to "well yeah, you'll finish ahead of us again, but you couldn't beat those OTHER teams." You guys are the best.

The funniest part of it is when you saw KU get whipped by UK and Temple, you thought ISU had a chance in the Big 12 this year.
Click to expand...
You-mad-bro.png
 
P

PullnPray

Member
Feb 26, 2013
76
1
8
Spanky said:
My numbers are correct, and if it makes the truth easier to embrace by cherry picking timeframes vs KU's body of work, you stick with that. Try checking only the even years, maybe the numbers will improve to 2.1 average tourney wins. Any way you slice it, KU underperforms. I won't hold my breath waiting for a KU fan to admit it's true.
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But your numbers aren't correct. Where did you get the less than 2 wins per tourney stat from? KU has 96 tournament wins and 43 tournament appearances. This comes out to 2.23 wins per tournament. Here are some more stats for you:

CategoryRankStat
All-Time Wins2nd2,117
All-Time Win %3rd.722
NCAA Tournament Titles6th-T3
NCAA Title Game Appearances4th-T9
NCAA Final Four Appearances5th14
NCAA Elite Eight Appearances4th21
NCAA Sweet 16 Appearances4th28
NCAA Tournament Appearances4th43
NCAA Tournament Games Played3rd138
NCAA Tournament Wins4th96
NCAA Tournament Win %6th.696
No. 1 Seed in NCAA Tournament3rd-T12
Weeks Ranked as AP No. 15th58
Weeks Ranked in AP Top 55th297
Weeks Ranked in AP Top 104th459
Weeks Ranked in AP Polls5th648
Seasons with 35 Wins or More2nd-T4
Seasons with 30 Wins or More3rd-T12
Seasons with 25 Wins or More3rd27
Seasons with 20 Wins or More5th42
Seasons with a Winning Record1st94
Seasons with a Non-Losing Record1st97
Consecutive seasons with 30 Wins or More[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP]1st4
Consensus First Team All-American Selections[SUP][17][/SUP]1st28
Consensus First Team All-Americans[SUP][17][/SUP]1st21
Regular Season Conference Championships1st57
If you judge KU solely by the categories in which it is weakest (total number of championships and NCAA tourney win %), the worst you can say about KU is that it is the 6th best program ever.
 
twocoach

twocoach

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2014
5,335
28
48
Omaha
GTO said:
The difference is we want Texas Tech. I don't think KU wants any part of Kentucky. I don't even think Kentucky has beat mid-majors this year as badly as they beat Kansas.
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The difference is that Texas Tech will be lucky to make the CBI while Kentucky is likely going to be the first undefeated national champ since the 70s. That you're even having this discussion shows how off the rails you have gone to try to argue about anything.
 
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