ISU vs Baylor Meltdown Thread - Only Game-Related Thread Allowed
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That's the question that Gene has to answer. Mac's solution was to recruit border line Iowa kids.
I think this staff has better connections than any of Mac's did. For the most part, it seems that they all have ties to the south, Florida, Texas, etc.
Iowa State will always be a tough sell, even in basketball where we have tradition, but whoever coaches here will have to be able to uncover talent.
I think the Texas, and Florida, connections are a good start. I know Mac got some kids out of Florida, riding what Troy Davis started (even though he was here before Mac).
The lack of player leadership is the most disappointing thing to me. The only ones you could see stepping up on the field to fire up the troops are Austen, Kurtis Taylor and RJ. Past that, we seem almost too mild mannered.
I've been saying that since the loss to Iowa. The biggest difference between this team and the young 2004 team is the senior leadership. Something to hope for for later in the year/next year I guess.
No they did not. I will never forget the K-State game that season. We were behind the ISU bench. If you thought the players got along, you were clearly wrong. Based on what I saw, there were several groups and nobody seemed to care what the other was doing. I can remember a WR (not releasing name) trotting up and down the along the bleachers asking the fans if they saw how open he was. He was throwing Flynn under the bus. Of course he was not trying hard as the o-line was terrible. The 2003 ISU could go down as one of the worst Big 12 teams of all time. (in the short history of the conference) That team was worse then any team Baylor put on the field.
Bibbs, Gerrin,Banks, LJ (you mentioned), Bell on D. Sed, Darks, on O
I will cherry pick off the top of my head it seems to work for you and Tornado
What a preposterous statement. Based on what? Blind faith? Where are these "connections" showing themselves? We now offer third and fourth-tier TX and FL kids at the last minute when other recruits fall through. Better to offer well-coached, academically-driven Iowa kids, like Ferentz used to do back when Iowa was winning...
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Based on the fact that they all have a history coaching down South, and are getting into more houses this year than they did when they first took the job.
TWO, I don't get why you think that a 3 or 4 star from Iowa has any more to offer than a 2 or 3 star from Texas. They don't the caliber of football in Texas, and Florida, even at small schools, is so much higher than in Iowa, it's not even funny.
You realize that all of the offering borderline Iowa kids was why we are at a low talent level. Kirk, much like Hayden, got the top of the Iowa players every year, with a handful of exceptions (Bates, Blythe, etc). Chizik will change that when he wins. He will make Iowa State desirable for Iowa kids, but will do it without pandering to the coaches by throwing away scholarships.
Wow,
If you want to compare recruiting, what are your thoughts on class of '04? This is the group that should be providing the 5th year SR leadership. I'll start by saluting Joco standout Tim Dobbins for his 2 outstanding years. Taylor is a class of '03 (last solid Mac class) injury carryover. What's left out of 28 commitments are 2 starters (Hundley & Sumerall) who won't sniff any post season honors and 6 reserves who play sparingly and have never really contributed. Any wonder why we have a new staff that is being forced to throw young guys into the mix before they are fully prepared for this level of competition?
Don't start using logic, or facts.
They don't reflect well on Mac, and they certainly don't fit into the argument that Gene has already failed.
Great post. Some posters in here need to break down the actual recruiting classes and their contributions before spouting off.
Looks like being too conservative is not the way to go at this point....what do we have to lose? Right?
Good god - anything to distract the masses from our abysmal lack of fundamentals, discipline (despite the "tough talk") and enthusiasm on the current team.
What about Cutcliffe at Duke at Duke and yes, Briles at Baylor - coaches in their first year at schools worse off than ISU when Chizik arrived - do you think they're analyzing the class of 2004? Baylor was bombed in every conference game last year. You should be asking what Briles and Cutlcliffe are doing that Chizik is not.
This is what I've been saying. In the case of Kansas, they knew they had an offense that is better than our defense so they could go for it. In the case of Baylor, they know they have nothing to lose, so they may as well go for it.
At some point, our coaches need to decide that there is nothing left to lose this season (except the rest of the games), and they need to start thinking outside the box. And put a freaking fullback on the field to grind out some tough yards in short 4th down yardage situations.
It seems that people on here, not just you, don't seem to realize that one thing that I agree with the staff on is that they are trying to establish the way that Iowa State is going to play for as long as Gene Chizik is here. They are going to be defensive based, and do everything they can to make the other team have to drive the length of the field every time.
Yes, I was upset they didn't go for it on 4th down a couple times last night. But establishing an identity is the first thing this staff is doing. After that, it comes down to recruiting, and upgrading the talent level.
Again go back to Mac. He learned from Fry, and Alveraz, they wanted to run the ball, be physical, and play great defense. Then he basically had no lines, and tried to play spread formations. He changed his focus due to poor recruiting (Fine I believe, although it started after the Insight Bowl), and never found his way back to who he was. I hope that Gene stays the course, it's going to take some time.
There is nothing really wrong with this team that a win couldn't cure. Let's get one Saturday.
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You talk about having Big 12 players who are the caliber of those on the 2-deeps at Texas and OU? None of those guys would be on the 2-deeps at either of those schools -- not even close.
Like Tornado said, why don't you go tell Sumrall, Taylor, and Arnaud that they were part of a bare cupboard. And since you think Chizik started with "nothing", also go find tell Ace Bowen, "Tuba" Rubin, Todd Blythe, and Bret Meyer and let them know that they were not Big 12 caliber either, and that ISU now has players with much more speed and physical skills than they ever had.
Most of us would probably take Bowen over Bibbs any day of the week -- thanks for being here to let us know that Bowen was part of an empty cupboard and that Bibbs is much better.
Hey, establishing an identity is great. But lets win some freaking games while we're at it!! Is our identity that we're not ever going to go for it on 4th down? That we're going to constantly try to pin opponents deep in their territory and hope that our defense can stop them? The defense is not going to score points as often as the offense does. That's why we have an offense. I know we got a defensive coordinator as a head coach, but its time to start taking some chances and show your players that you trust them to get some yards when you need them to.
Wow, you are an unhappy person. Way to change the questions.
You can check Steve's post to answer your attempts at arguing. But, although I don't think that you can understand what is being said, Gene has one full, and one half of a recruiting class in his time here, and due to the lack of established players, he is playing 11 TRUE freshmen, why? Because they are better options than players that have been here for more than two years. He will continue to recruit over his guys as well.
You list a handful, less than a full class of players, and make that seem like we had a strong two deep at all positions. Yes the team misses Bowen, Rubin, etc. And imagine how good Blythe and Meyer could have been had they been coached.
Good programs, especially ones that had the stability of coaching that Iowa State did prior to Gene being hired, should have more than the handful of players that you try to list to "prove" your point.
Keep digging, though. The rest of the people with agendas I think are just loyal to Mac. but I get the sense that you aren't really an Iowa State fan.
Please don't get me wrong, I was yelling my fool head off about going for it at the 45.
I think that Gene is in it for the long haul, and this is what he is going to do. I don't necessarily agree, but I am not the coach.
Plus, last night, I think he was trying to get everyone off the field in one piece, and get the game over with as quick as possible. This team needs time to regroup (also the fault of the coaching staff, but that team was a million miles away last night).
You said Gene inherited an empty cupboard. You are either too young or too dense to even know what an empty cupboard is. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the former. Empty cupboards don't include a senior QB with 3 years of experience under his belt, an all-conference wide receiver, an NFL linebacker, or players like Rubin, Sumrall, and the others.
I know you want to put forward some fantasy that Gene is trying to create a Phoenix rising from the ashes, but it just isn't so. If you had seen what Mac inherited at ISU or what Bill Snyder inherited at Kansas State, you would actually understand what an empty cupboard looks like.
I know you want to put forward some fantasy that Gene is trying to create a Phoenix rising from the ashes, but it just isn't so. If you had seen what Mac inherited at ISU or what Bill Snyder inherited at Kansas State, you would actually understand what an empty cupboard looks like.
I don't agree with either of those comparisons since both Cutliffe and Briles have previously been head coaches. And both have been in it for a very, very long time.
I'm not surprised a coach who tutored both Manning brothers (and still does) can turn around a team like Duke.
