*** Official IOWA STATE VS Kansas State Game(Day) Thread ***

[BWRhasnoAC]

It's not a Prohm thing-- I'm not willing to give college coaches in general much credit for anyone's professional success.

What specifically did Fred Hoiberg do to get BDJ time in the league?

What are you seeing from any of those players' skillsets now that relates to their time with CSP? Have they given CSP credit for where they are? Not arguing, actually wondering. Very cool if they have.

Not many people thought Monte would shake out in the league after his Junior year. Thomas defense went from laughable to nearly the best in the Big 12. Nader and Burton both flipped a switch and I'm not sure how that couldn't be credited to Prohm. All four of those guys weren't expected to sniff much playing time and they all got their shot and minus Burton they're all on a roster.

 

[madguy30]

Not many people thought Monte would shake out in the league after his Junior year. Thomas defense went from laughable to nearly the best in the Big 12. Nader and Burton both flipped a switch and I'm not sure how that couldn't be credited to Prohm. All four of those guys weren't expected to sniff much playing time and they all got their shot and minus Burton they're all on a roster.

So how IS it credited to Prohm?

I thought Matt Thomas played some really good ball at the end of his career and CSP had that team playing some of the best ball I've seen out of ISU since LE's teams.

But I don't know how that relates to him being on an NBA roster specifically.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

So how IS it credited to Prohm?

I thought Matt Thomas played some really good ball at the end of his career and CSP had that team playing some of the best ball I've seen out of ISU since LE's teams.

But I don't know how that relates to him being on an NBA roster specifically.

You don't think the person in charge of someone's advancement should be credited with their advancement while under his wing? Those players all got considerably better their last years with Prohm.

 

[madguy30]

You don't think the person in charge of someone's advancement should be credited with their advancement while under his wing? Those players all got considerably better their last years with Prohm.

You're writing things that I'm not saying.

I think it's best you move along.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

You're writing things that I'm not saying.

I think it's best you move along.

I may never see again after rolling my eyes that hard.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I may never see again after rolling my eyes that hard.

The reality is there are a number of players that got better playing for Steve Prohm.

He has not won enough 2 of the last 3 years. And if it happens again next year, he will no longer be the head basketball coach at Iowa State.

but there is most definitely a group pushing a narrative here. And they will post dumb things out of spite, like Weber was the reason tyrese improved. And no one ever got better playing for Steve Prohm.

 

[LincolnWay187]

You're writing things that I'm not saying.

I think it's best you move along.

This is what is called the straw man argument. If you don't like it... Dont go to the politics section


Description
A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
Wikipedia › wiki › Straw_man
Straw man - Wikipedia

 

[madguy30]

This is what is called the straw man argument. If you don't like it... Dont go to the politics section


Description
A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
Wikipedia › wiki › Straw_man
Straw man - Wikipedia

JFC.
This is what I wrote and that the poster quoted:

But I don't know how that relates to him being on an NBA roster specifically.

This is what that poster said I wrote.

You don't think the person in charge of someone's advancement should be credited with their advancement while under his wing? Those players all got considerably better their last years with Prohm.

Those two things are not the same.

I'm not saying Prohm doesn't deserve credit. I'm saying I'm not sure what specifically happened under Prohm that would relate to what a player is doing currently. I would like to know what that is.

The poster DID say that Prohm puts players in the NBA before they graduate. Aside from THT getting in for 5 minutes, other ISU players like LW and CL have been in the G-league, which is not the NBA. Those are players that would have been gone no matter what, so again, I'd like to know what specifically happened under Prohm's coaching that got them that 'far'.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

JFC.
This is what I wrote and that the poster quoted:



This is what that poster said I wrote.



Those two things are not the same.

I'm not saying Prohm doesn't deserve credit. I'm saying I'm not sure what specifically happened under Prohm that would relate to what a player is doing currently. I would like to know what that is.

The poster DID say that Prohm puts players in the NBA before they graduate. Aside from THT getting in for 5 minutes, other ISU players like LW and CL have been in the G-league, which is not the NBA. Those are players that would have been gone no matter what, so again, I'd like to know what specifically happened under Prohm's coaching that got them that 'far'.

So what you're saying is we were both using strawman arguments? I'm not really sure I ever made the case that Prohm is responsible for their professional development but I can accept that is what you understood, if you can accept it most certainly isn't consistent with my statements.

I will leave you with this question however, If those players hadn't developed to their perceived potential (Wiggington 5 star recruit rating for example) would it then be Steve's fault or just the players lack of ambition, drive, etc?

 

[Cycl1]

The reality is there are a number of players that got better playing for Steve Prohm.

He has not won enough 2 of the last 3 years. And if it happens again next year, he will no longer be the head basketball coach at Iowa State.

but there is most definitely a group pushing a narrative here. And they will post dumb things out of spite, like Weber was the reason tyrese improved. And no one ever got better playing for Steve Prohm.

I'm saying prohm isn't the only reason Tyrese improved. He played for 2 coaches this last year. He went from zero expectations to first rounder last season, and from end of the first round to the lottery with his play over the summer with Weber as his coach. Unless you have seen an interview where Tyrese says he learned nothing under Bruce when they won gold together I don't see how you can completely discount Weber's influence, or are you doing that thing where you don't actually read what was posted and make stuff up to fit your narrative? Either you purposely make stuff up, or you need to slow down and do some reading. Multiple times people have told you that you are completely wrong with how you have taken their posts, and yet you still spew the same stuff over and over.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I'm saying prohm isn't the only reason Tyrese improved. He played for 2 coaches this last year. He went from zero expectations to first rounder last season, and from end of the first round to the lottery with his play over the summer with Weber as his coach. Unless you have seen an interview where Tyrese says he learned nothing under Bruce when they won gold together I don't see how you can completely discount Weber's influence, or are you doing that thing where you don't actually read what was posted and make stuff up to fit your narrative? Either you purposely make stuff up, or you need to slow down and do some reading. Multiple times people have told you that you are completely wrong with how you have taken their posts, and yet you still spew the same stuff over and over.

So you didn’t type this word for word.


Prohm gets all the credit for tyrese, who blew up over the summer playing on the u19 USA team for coach prohm? Oh wait that's not right, he blew up while playing for coach Webber.


He was on draft boards last year during the season. You made **** up. You got called on it, and still won’t admit you’re wrong.

 

[madguy30]

So what you're saying is we were both using strawman arguments? I'm not really sure I ever made the case that Prohm is responsible for their professional development but I can accept that is what you understood, if you can accept it most certainly isn't consistent with my statements.

I will leave you with this question however, If those players hadn't developed to their perceived potential (Wiggington 5 star recruit rating for example) would it then be Steve's fault or just the players lack of ambition, drive, etc?

A player's drive, work ethic, team-first mentality, etc. falls on them, at least at some point. Personally I thought a strength of Prohm's was getting buy-in from players, which imo led to his first two teams playing some good ball at the end of those seasons after some bumpy spots. Wasn't there something where McKay was wondering 'who'd take care of him' after Fred left? Like, really? You need to be watched over?

I also applaud him for being that patient with Lard last year--Lard simply didn't figure it out, and I know LW even said after the B12 tourney something about how it took a while for him to buy in.

I don't know if Prohm handled those situations correctly vs. results or not, but to me it didn't seem like they were exactly meeting him halfway either.

I think this year's team actually grew a bit as the year went on, but perceived effort didn't look great...anyone who's been on a team that simply can't win, knows it's really tough to get out of that rut. I really don't know how much of that is Prohm.

A positive is developmentally I think Solo has looked about as good as any post player in a real long time at ISU as far as footwork, shot type etc. are concerned.

 

[Cycl1]

So you didn’t type this word for word.


Prohm gets all the credit for tyrese, who blew up over the summer playing on the u19 USA team for coach prohm? Oh wait that's not right, he blew up while playing for coach Webber.


He was on draft boards last year during the season. You made **** up. You got called on it, and still won’t admit you’re wrong.

I said that in response to a post that said Prohm gets all the credit in the world for Tyrese Haliburton. All the credit in the world is a mighty tall claim to make when he has played for multiple coaches in the past calender year, including the period where he jumped up into the lottery. Please pay attention to the actual conversation that is happening and not just single posts. Of course it is ridiculous to say Weber is the only one who gets credit for Tyrese ( which I didn't even say) , just like it was ridiculous to say prohm is the only one who gets credit for Tyrese. I bet Tyrese would like a bit of the credit as well.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I said that in response to a post that said Prohm gets all the credit in the world for Tyrese Haliburton. All the credit in the world is a mighty tall claim to make when he has played for multiple coaches in the past calender year, including the period where he jumped up into the lottery. Please pay attention to the actual conversation that is happening and not just single posts. Of course it is ridiculous to say Weber is the only one who gets credit for Tyrese ( which I didn't even say) , just like it was ridiculous to say prohm is the only one who gets credit for Tyrese. I bet Tyrese would like a bit of the credit as well.

Who said he gets all the credit in the world for Tyrese?

 

[Cycl1]

Who said he gets all the credit in the world for Tyrese?

I believe it was brokenloginagain. Said prohm gets all the credit in the world for haliburton being the only legit NBA draft pick out of ISU. yeah prohm brought him to ISU, but his development certainly isn't only because of Prohm.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

I believe it was brokenloginagain. Said prohm gets all the credit in the world for haliburton being the only legit NBA draft pick out of ISU. yeah prohm brought him to ISU, but his development certainly isn't only because of Prohm.

This hurts my head.

 

[Cycl1]

This hurts my head.

Right? we have had tons of NBA talent over the years. Lots of people drafted. Monte, Nader, Niang, Royce, shayok, and THT.

 

[Clonefan32]

Steve is basically the Jim Thome of recruiting. When he hits, it's usually a home run. But there are alot of strikeouts mixed in too.

 

[JBone84]

The minor leagues aren't major league baseball? You guys are so petty. How much money did you guys make in your professional basketball careers? Matt Thomas, Georges Niang, Naz, all made their way through the G-league. Does that minimize their accomplishments? Or is it just that you guys are incapable of conceding anything to Prohm's benefit?

You answered your own question quite clearly.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

You answered your own question quite clearly.

It's owned by them, and I'm assuming you didn't play much sports if you don't consider being in triple AAA a major accomplishment. If you're good enough to get paid to play a sport, then I don't really see the difference.