Survivor: Winners at War
- Thread starter cmjh10
- Start date
Last night was the first time since final four fire making was introduced that a woman has received votes at final tribal council. Since Season 31, men have received 86% of the FTC votes.
I'm not saying Tony didn't deserve to win. He absolutely did. I'm just saying it sucks to see and having only two recent female winners absolutely hurt this season. In fact, the three most recent female winners made up 3/4th of the final four.
I'm not saying Tony didn't deserve to win. He absolutely did. I'm just saying it sucks to see and having only two recent female winners absolutely hurt this season. In fact, the three most recent female winners made up 3/4th of the final four.
I actually like what they did with the Fire Tokens. My fear was they would jam them into this season and they would have too big of an impact. But they look is slow which was the right approach, in my opinion. They have plenty to build on for future seasons.
I do wish they made the fire tokens more impactful for the players left in the game. Outside of a couple of trades within the game, everything was focused on EoE with the tokens. They could auction off advantages, idols, rewards, etc which would be a nice twist
I do wish they made the fire tokens more impactful for the players left in the game. Outside of a couple of trades within the game, everything was focused on EoE with the tokens. They could auction off advantages, idols, rewards, etc which would be a nice twist
I don't like how you can punish a player still in the game. How is it fair that you can just punish Tony without consequence. That part was a little big brother esq for me. OTher than that I liked them .
Ok, in what season did a woman not win that should have won? It's not fair to say things like, "it sucks to see and having two recent female winners" without saying who you think that person should have been.
The winning strategies for women and men do tend to be different. The winning men tend to be aggressive and seen as controlling the game either physically or strategically. The winning women tend to be low-key and their moves are more behind the scenes.
Where I think Survivor can do a better job is in casting, especially for black women. They tend to be of the same mold it seems, and it's a type that might make for good tv early on, but is a sure fire way to get voted out early. This game could use more Cirie's
As for the game using some of this stuff going forward:
I like redemption island or edge of extinction, but you have to end it at the merge. Most of the time, getting voted out early is more a product of bad luck than poor strategy. So I like the idea of giving those players one shot at getting back into the game. You can't have them hanging out on a beach with their jury voters though. Natalie literally bought a vote from Tyson by buying him an immunity idol.
Instead of a billion hidden immunity idols, use fire tokens as the main way to acquire immunity idols. I'd give fire tokens out to reward good gameplay, like winning a challenge, being on the "right side" of a vote (ie voting for the person who was voted out), doing tasks on whatever exile island type gimmick they've got going on, etc. The two problems with fire tokens this year, in my view anyway, were that the players in the game didn't really know what to do with them and I really didn't like players who were voted out being able to dictate what happens to players still in the game. Both of those things shouldn't be a problem going forward because I don't think they'll bring back edge of extinction (I think the concept was received very poorly by fans and I think the producers have noticed) and as more seasons involve fire tokens, the players will become more accustomed on how to use them.
I like redemption island or edge of extinction, but you have to end it at the merge. Most of the time, getting voted out early is more a product of bad luck than poor strategy. So I like the idea of giving those players one shot at getting back into the game. You can't have them hanging out on a beach with their jury voters though. Natalie literally bought a vote from Tyson by buying him an immunity idol.
Instead of a billion hidden immunity idols, use fire tokens as the main way to acquire immunity idols. I'd give fire tokens out to reward good gameplay, like winning a challenge, being on the "right side" of a vote (ie voting for the person who was voted out), doing tasks on whatever exile island type gimmick they've got going on, etc. The two problems with fire tokens this year, in my view anyway, were that the players in the game didn't really know what to do with them and I really didn't like players who were voted out being able to dictate what happens to players still in the game. Both of those things shouldn't be a problem going forward because I don't think they'll bring back edge of extinction (I think the concept was received very poorly by fans and I think the producers have noticed) and as more seasons involve fire tokens, the players will become more accustomed on how to use them.
I think it would be good if instead of going to an island. They got voted out and then stayed with the tribe. That would add some drama. They would not get to go to Tribal but could live with the tribe and watch the contests and not be eligible. Then at merge they can enter the game if they win a way back and it's over. I agree with what you said on the rest of it.
That would be tricky because by being voted off but still living with those still in the game those people have nothing to lose and can create even more chaos by planting seeds of doubt and spreading lies that will alter the game even though they aren't actively participating in challenges and tribal votes. It would add drama but I think it would really mess up gameplay. If you did an extinction island type thing again I almost would rather they spread them all out to their own little camp sites away from each other or at least split into smaller groups so they can't interact so much and see who really has the mental and physical ability to wait out their chance to get back in the game when they are having to rough it on their own. Or do like they did on other seasons with exile where once you get there you have to compete in a challenge in order to stay there. I am not a fan of allowing every person that gets voted off to still remain in the game in some form up until the final 6 or whatever because the more people still in it those people start to bond and share information and whoever gets to go back in the game comes in with an advantage with the jury that the ones that have not been voted out don't have.
I get that also. I just really hate that you can avoid the whole game, come back with 6 left and win after making a move or two. It's annoying. All the time we put into characters making all these moves and back doors only for some person that didn't have to make those moves and actually lost already, come back into the game and win. I didn't think Natalie deserved one vote last night. If she would have came in when Tyson originally won the comeback then fine. That gives her time to make moves, avoid getting voted out, and play the game. She did nothing when she came back other than play one idol that she bought with tokens, play one idol that had no bearing on the game, then avoid making fire. How would anyone think that deserves to win? That annoys me.
I'm not disagreeing with you totally but being on the edge where you have even worse conditions, you're still mingling with the jury, and still looking for advantages to help yourself and influence the game, you're not just sitting out for most of the marathon.
That being said, Natalie didn't do anything to help herself. She should have put herself in harms way and forced her social game to be better much like Chris. She should have put herself into the firemaking challenge to take out Tony.
Think about the season since firemaking challenge started....I can name probably one woman actually deserving to win it all and that was Chrissy Hofbek.
Big brother tried that last summer...it completely stalled/killed gameplay. It was a trainwreck.
Yes Chrissy should have won over Ben. My point is that the forced fire making challenge probably favors men over women, and that since it has been implemented it has directly affected the winner of 4/6 seasons, directly keeping at least two females from winning a season (S35 and S40).
In seasons 1-25, men won 13 and women won 12. In seasons 26-40, men won 12 and women won 3. Something changed, and that is a problem. I think saying that casting is the issue is a bit short sighted. There have been plenty of great NEW female contestants worthy of winning in Seasons 26-40. Sarah, Tasha, Wentworth, Natalie, Aubry, Michele, Chrissy, Angelina, and probably others.
What I don't understand is you are out there for over a month if you make it far enough to be in the final 4. You know you have a good chance of having to make fire to make it to the end so how are you not practicing fire making skills almost daily while in the game? There have been some seasons where someone gets that far and doesn't have the first clue how to start a fire. This season at least they all seemed to have some kind of ability to since they've all played at least 1 season before but there have been some fire making challenges that took awhile for someone to finally win.
Why would the fire making challenge favor men over women? Michelle likely would have smoked either Sarah or Tony, and Sarah got very close, she kind of blew it actually by just burning up all the coconut hair. It's not a skill that's dependent on brute strength at all.
Also along the same lines as my argument women have as good of a chance to find idols and the number of women finding them compared to men is staggering. It might be a casting issue. However, how do you cast for people who are going to go find idols. I think Natalie had a chance to win if she would have made fire. Sarah in my opinion wins if she would have beat Tony in fire. So it's not like they don't have a chance. They just lose by having the wrong women in the finals. BTW Ben won because he was not lazy and went and looked for the idols and nobody else did because they mailed it in and thought they had it wrapped up. That is why Ben won. He kept trying. People respected that.
Both women and men were very well aware it was going to be fire making and have had access to practice. I hate the fire making challenge but it's fair. Even before this challenge, it's been stated by everyone including Jeff on the show if you're going to play Survivor you better learn how to make fire.
I've always maintained Ben and Chrissy both played winning games and was fine with either outcome. Ben had to white knuckle it, but it worked. He was clutch when he had to be.
There is no way Tony is losing to Sarah in the final 2.
Yeah I heard people ranting on a podcast how idol placement is sexist towards women. Give me a freaking break. Their reasoning was that was because the men would go out and get supplies and the women would tend to the fire/camp site. Unless the men are forcing the women to not leave the camp, its equal opportunity no matter where they are. Plus they've been planting more and more around camp anyways.
Good point about Ben - I forgot he'd wake up in the middle of the night searching. Yeah his social game wasn't as good, but he at least knew how the chess board was set up and knew his path to the end. That being said, I loved Chrissy's game that season.
Was thinking they could easily do a Survivor-Runner Up where all the contestants are people who have made the final 2 or 3 but never won:
Women:
1. Hannah Shapiro
2. Aubrey Bracco
3. Angelina (from D vs. G)
4. Chrissy
5. Monica Culpepper
6. Amanda
7. Becky Lee
8. Danielle
9. Stephanie
10. Kelly Wigleworth
Men:
1. Ozzie
2. Spencer
3. Woo
4. Coach
5. Phillip
6. Russell Hantz
7. Fishbach
8. Colby
9. Dom (probably the best runner up of all time)
10. Gavin
Women:
1. Hannah Shapiro
2. Aubrey Bracco
3. Angelina (from D vs. G)
4. Chrissy
5. Monica Culpepper
6. Amanda
7. Becky Lee
8. Danielle
9. Stephanie
10. Kelly Wigleworth
Men:
1. Ozzie
2. Spencer
3. Woo
4. Coach
5. Phillip
6. Russell Hantz
7. Fishbach
8. Colby
9. Dom (probably the best runner up of all time)
10. Gavin
