*** Official Iowa State Season Thread ***
- Thread starter CycloneRulzzz
- Start date
Ugh this again.
Tell me who he takes minutes from.
You have four choices.
A) Nick Weiler-Babb
B) Tyrese Haliburton
C) Marial Shayok
D) Talen Horton-Tucker
Make a clear case he deserved those minutes over (at least) one of them.
Contradicting illogic is not supporting CSP. It's just supporting logic.
That's actually pretty easy. For the most part I would have taken minutes form Babb. By the end of that year he was clearly hurt and was playing with hardly any athleticism.
I also think those four options oversimplify it. You could play a combination of 3 and sometimes 4 of those guys together. Those are all big, versatile guards where you could have gone 4 guards and Solo/Lard/Jacobson.
Wiggy was too good and too dynamic to only play 25 minutes. Good coaches get creative and figure it out.
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I think the biggest thing was in the first couple weeks after he was back, he just totally botched that situation. Wigginton was a starter that simply got injured and then because of that injury was relegated to the bench but to top that off, Prohm kept saying he has to get him in the starting lineup. It was messing not only with Wigginton but the team. Once he stopped that and got Wigginton to accept his role, things got better but he handled that really poorly. I think NWB minutes could have been reduced a few minutes a game because if I remember correctly Prohm had him playing something like 36 or 37 minutes a game. Especially when you have Haliburton on the floor they were kind of redundant but Haliburton is the better shooter. Pretty sure as well you can go back but somebody tracked efficiency of lineups and the lineups with Wigginton had a better efficiency margin that the lineups with out him.
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My dad is a UPS guy and used to deliver on campus and he always told me how the players apartments would always smell like weed when they opened the door. (Hoiberg players). So many guys on those teams would not have worked under Prohm.. I get having values as a coach but you almost have to be willing to work with guys who aren’t perfect so you can win..
Easily Babb. Wigginton was the second best college player on that roster for that specific season. Tyrese should have been starting at PG surrounded by scorers in THT, Wigginton and Shayok.
You can make it work with the book club players Steve wants If you’re a really good X’s and O’s coach and have absolute buy in
See: Tony Bennett. Bo Ryan. Jay Wright.
I think you guys underestimate Nick.
-- fifth-year senior
-- best PG on the roster (over even Tyrese)
-- yes, we all know Tyrese's development has went to the moon, but he was still a true freshman in the Big 12 that year... doubt you're going to hand him the keys to the offense so quickly
-- Nick had no outstanding skills, but he also had very few weaknesses in his game
-- Nick was 3" taller and probably 15 pounds heavier than Wigginton
-- Nick actually had PG skills and moved the ball, which somebody had to do out there... you all complained about ball-stopping that year, well, wait until you've got a lineup of Shayok, THT, and Wigginton out there...
-- wasn't a complete turnstile on defense
Saying that maybe Wigginton deserved one more four-minute block over Nick isn't unreasonable, but that is a pretty minor complaint to say Nick should have played more like 32-36 minutes and Wigginton should have played more like 25-30 minutes instead of 20-25 minutes. How much difference would that really make?
You all complain like this was some titanic screw-job when there isn't even much of a case it was more than slightly suboptimal. Wigginton was good as a freshman on a bad team, yes, but he was superseded in his role of primary chucker by Shayok (who was better) and didn't have the PG skills to take time from NWB and TH.
The correct answer, if there was one, was THT. He could be incredible some nights, but he could also be unplayable others. Identifying which Talen showed up that night was something Prohm could have done faster.
I would put him no better than third. Shayok and Haliburton were monsters.
You have some case with Nick or THT but, again, your points would demand a slight adjustment in minutes. It's not like Prohm benched Wigginton and never let him play. He played more minutes in the Big 12 than THT did.
Plus, are you really going to give an 18-year old true freshman built like a toothpick control of an offense for a team that has ambitions of winning the Big 12 and that primarily leans on its offense...?
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
After watching Babb play the point so passively all those years? Sure, I'd do it.
Babb didn't have any strengths to augment his alleged lack of weaknesses. He primarily filled space and minutes.
Folks saying Haliburton should have ran point that year really don't remember some of the limitations he had as a freshman. He really couldn't create his own shot at that point. Great vision and shooting but his game still needed work. You put him at PG and the offense would grind to a halt.
Put Lindell at PG and you end up with things being a turnover machine.
Bingo.
Nick wasn't Monté (and who else is), but he was a serviceable college PG on a good team.
He was the best option.
Wigginton was competing for time with Shayok and Horton-Tucker, not Nick.
I know Monday was ugly. But Michigan State came back after two weeks off like we did yesterday and lost 67-37.
Iowa State has been bad all year so I thinking blaming covid entirely for Monday isn’t exactly fair. But if one of the best coaches ever can get beat by 30 after a covid break, it’s also fair to point that out.
Prohm’s passion on this issue placed him on the wrong side of history.
I think people are underestimating what Tyrese could have done as a freshman. He simply played the role he was asked to play. Yes, Tyrese wasn’t a huge create his own shot type of guy but he had the talent to be the PG from day one if he was given the opportunity. I don’t see how the offense would grind to a halt with him but with NWB it wouldn’t? Babb was a very solid player and did some good things but it always drove me crazy how slowly he played on offense. Tyrese made Conditt look great at times last year.. I sometimes like to imagine how good he could have made Lard look if he was running PG and Lard was on the floor more often.
Many people often defend Jacobson over Lard and Babb over Wigginton but if that was truly the right call, why did that team finish 9-9 in conference? Something didn’t work and I think it’s reasonable to question Prohm for those decisions. I don’t think Haliburton-Wigginton-Shayok-THT and Lard led lineup finishes 9-9 but that’s just my opinion and I respect other people’s opinions who disagree with me.
Do people that freak out about 9-9 realize that 12-6 is our best conference finish since 2000 and that 2013-2014, arguably our best team since 2000, finished 11-7?
Just saying it's not some monumental flop. Especially considering they were projected to finish bottom half before the season.
Just saying it's not some monumental flop. Especially considering they were projected to finish bottom half before the season.
