*** Official Iowa State Season Thread ***

[ISUChippewa]

Do people that freak out about 9-9 realize that 12-6 is our best conference finish since 2000 and that 2013-2014, arguably our best team since 2000, finished 11-7?

Just saying it's not some monumental flop. Especially considering they were projected to finish bottom half before the season.

I'm on record as defending that season as being a good one, but at the same time that team had no business getting absolutely smoked at West Virginia the way they did, even without Shayok.

Also, it would have been really nice to have beaten either Baylor or TCU at Hilton. We really should have won both of those games.

 

[ISUChippewa]

Underachievement is a during the season thing. The NCAAs are a whole other beast.

How do you figure here? IMO, the NCAA tournament is an extension of the regular season. If you have a good enough regular season, particularly in the Power 5 conferences, you're likely going to make it into the tournament. Granted, the games are one and done if you lose, so there's added pressure, but teams can certainly underachieve in the tournament based on level of talent and/or regular season performance.

 

[Sigmapolis]

And lets not forget that past the top 6 in the rotation during most of those years, the talent dropped off REALLY quickly. Monte was playing 40 minutes most games. ISU had a high ceiling with their starting 5 but the margin for error was zero. You catch one team that shoots super hot from 3 or you have one guy go cold or get tired and you lose.

On and let's also remember the most important thing about those teams, despite the (arguable) disappointment: THEY WERE FUN TO WATCH.

Watching our teams the last few years has been legit painful.

We really missed Naz that year -- both from a leadership and a productivity standpoint.

We were playing Jordan Ashton and Hallice Cooke for extended guard minutes that year.

That doesn't happen with Naz around.

Unfortunately Marcus Paige destroyed me on numerous occasions but it was always a fun battle.

That’s true and I do agree that Babb helped the team a lot. He hit some big baskets when the shot clock was winding down. He did impact the game and help us win. I just think Wigginton impacted it more and when he played well, the team was at a different level as opposed to when Babb played well. We could beat anyone when Wigginton played his best. I think we can all agree that team had no business being 9-9 in conference and losing to Ohio State.

Good Wigginton was a beast. Always a threat to go off for 25 on 80%+ TS% on any given night.

But also always a strong candidate for going 2/9 from the field with five turnovers.

 

[CycloneErik]

How do you figure here? IMO, the NCAA tournament is an extension of the regular season. If you have a good enough regular season, particularly in the Power 5 conferences, you're likely going to make it into the tournament. Granted, the games are one and done if you lose, so there's added pressure, but teams can certainly underachieve in the tournament based on level of talent and/or regular season performance.

Because stuff happens in the tournament, and it happens to everybody.

 

[NoCreativity]

And lets not forget that past the top 6 in the rotation during most of those years, the talent dropped off REALLY quickly. Monte was playing 40 minutes most games. ISU had a high ceiling with their starting 5 but the margin for error was zero. You catch one team that shoots super hot from 3 or you have one guy go cold or get tired and you lose.

On and let's also remember the most important thing about those teams, despite the (arguable) disappointment: THEY WERE FUN TO WATCH.

Watching our teams the last few years has been legit painful.

Derpth is overrated. Alot of the top teams in college basketball only go 6 or 7 deep.

 

[ISUChippewa]

Derpth is overrated. Alot of the top teams in college basketball only go 6 or 7 deep.

I do disagree with you on the importance of depth, but even if I did agree, I can't say that either Cooke or Ashton were Big 12 quality bench players.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Fair point but 10-8 with 5 of those guys returning, arguably the best roster in program history, best top 6 hands down is rough. The year prior, Matt was still a work in progress, McKay had played 1 semester of p6 ball, Nader was a role player playing his first season in the big 12, Monte and Georges hadn't peaked, Naz is probably the only guy who returned that had more or less hit his upside. 15/16 was the year it was supposed to all come together. The Sweet 16 run kind of covered it up but we took a step back after trending towards winning the league. We haven't been a legit contender since.

Yes, but while we are all going down memory lane "re-imaging" CSP's tenure, let's not forget that 15-16 team that was suppose to all come together........Naz couldn't play and McCay didn't want to. It's hard to "all come together" when 2 of the best top 6 can't/don't want to contribute.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I do disagree with you on the importance of depth, but even if I did agree, I can't say that either Cooke or Ashton were Big 12 quality bench players.

They weren't.

 

[NoCreativity]

I do disagree with you on the importance of depth, but even if I did agree, I can't say that either Cooke or Ashton were Big 12 quality bench players.

Yeah, you won't have any argument from me about that.

 

[ScottyP]

It is amazing how poorly this team is coached from an X's and O's standpoint. I'm not sure who draws up up the in-bounds plays, but we struggle mightily just inbounding the ball. After listening to the Title IX podcast, Jared and Alisa Woods were ripping the coaches for trying to run a 1-3-1 zone against Oklahoma State. Our offense has almost no movement off the ball and a lot of standing around. We all know about the questionable time-out strategy.

An average X's and O's coach would be a huge upgrade at this point.

 

[madguy30]

I know Monday was ugly. But Michigan State came back after two weeks off like we did yesterday and lost 67-37.

Definitely is a weird year.

Off the topic but college basketball has been pretty screwed up with the constant roster transitions for a while and now it's even worse. Duke, KY, MSU, and UNC are all average to bad and I wonder how those coaches approach things going forward as the 'get older' model seems to produce at least the most consistent teams.

Although I don't know how much MSU played the transfer/one and done game.

 

[awd4cy]

And "only" went 12-6/25-9.

That’s quite a bit better than 2019

 

[cyclones500]

Off the topic but college basketball has been pretty screwed up with the constant roster transitions for a while and now it's even worse. Duke, KY, MSU, and UNC are all average to bad and I wonder how those coaches approach things going forward as the 'get older' model seems to produce at least the most consistent teams.

Although I don't know how much MSU played the transfer/one and done game.

Analysis of that theme from earlier today, link below. Not the first time it's been addressed and doesn't come to any major conclusion, but there for the reading.

Men's college basketball bluebloods Duke, Kentucky are struggling. Is reliance on one-and-done players to blame?

Duke and Kentucky men's basketball teams will need to work to make the NCAA tournament. Has their reliance on one-and-done players hurt the programs?

www.usatoday.com

 

[NENick]

I was ok with Wigginton not starting, but it irked me that he would usually sit out like the first 8-10 minutes of the first half or second half. Never understood that.

Agreed. I've always wondered why CSP waits so long before 1st substitutions. (Not counting early fouls)

Because stuff happens in the tournament, and it happens to everybody.

It makes no sense to me to grade an entire season on a one and done tournament. Especially when 20 year olds are playing in it.

 

[IASTATE07]

I was ok with Wigginton not starting, but it irked me that he would usually sit out like the first 8-10 minutes of the first half or second half. Never understood that.

Anybody want to guess how many times Wigginton sat for 8 minutes before coming into the game?

 

[cyclones500]

Anybody want to guess how many times Wigginton sat for 8 minutes before coming into the game?

I'll take a stab at it: Zero?

 

[erinmd32]

My dad is a UPS guy and used to deliver on campus and he always told me how the players apartments would always smell like weed when they opened the door. (Hoiberg players). So many guys on those teams would not have worked under Prohm.. I get having values as a coach but you almost have to be willing to work with guys who aren’t perfect so you can win..

Maybe that is true but when they weren't smoking weed they seemed to actually show up to games and shooting practice and appeared to stay out of trouble

 

[ISUTex]

Just sayin' there's some selectivity from some on here in terms of which underachievement relative to the talent on the roster they want to prioritize. A team with six NBA guys should have won the Big 12 regular season.

Period. Over even Kansas. I doubt we'll ever see such a collection of talent in cardinal and gold ever again.

But it didn't.

Prohm didn't do anything that Hoiberg didn't do with Niang, Morris and co. And Prohm had the more mature version. Prohm has basically had 4 years of his guys, and three have been garbage. Hoiberg also had much better wins in the tourney. Just saying.

 

[IASTATE07]

I'll take a stab at it: Zero?

Once that I saw against Kansas. There were a few instances that it went past 7 minutes, but 90% of the time he came in around the 6 minute mark or before.

 

[cyatheart]

Ugh this again.

Tell me who he takes minutes from.

You have four choices.

A) Nick Weiler-Babb
B) Tyrese Haliburton
C) Marial Shayok
D) Talen Horton-Tucker

Make a clear case he deserved those minutes over (at least) one of them.

Babb was awful post Christmas