End of January Update Coach Prohm

[cb1030]

It would be particularly interesting to see some accurate numbers laid out in terms of the financial impact of cutting ties at the end of the year with CSP vs that of keeping him and what that could potentially do to season ticket/individual ticket sales. The latter is obviously up in the air, but I have to imagine there are many that are second guessing re-upping going forward.

 

[Land Shark]

But the problem with this statement is that COVID absolutely had an effect on this team. Not only do they go two weeks without a real practice.. but they have been missing a significant portion of their starting lineup for two games in a row now. Yeah TT game was a step back, but I was actually pleased with the improvement from week 1 up to the WVU, Texas and Baylor games. Then you throw the COVID situation, especially how hard it has hit the team, and what else do you expect?

Isn't this something like the first time in 50 years that UK, UNC and Duke are all missing from top 25? This is a WEIRD year, some teams have been atrocious, and some have thrived because of it, or should Coach K be fired this year too?

Let's face reality here, we are facing a 25Mil shortfall in the budget and you really think Pollard will take on the additional financial liability and risk to bring in a new coach?

If next year we don't see progression, this yes, let's move on.. but the middle of a pandemic is not the time to introduce some additional uncertainty financially.

Let's just relax, breathe, and see how the players finish out the rest of the season. Yes the team isn't good this year, but let's cheer this team on and hope for some improvement.

Nearly his entire roster is planning on jumping ship at the conclusion of the season. Next year, if he stayed, he is starting over (again) and people like you will be making excuses for him (again) and our program fall further into the abyss and is a tougher job to recruit to than it was the year before.
The money is there- it is time to stop kicking the can down the road and end this madness. The guy is not going to get it done here- it is established and out there for all to see. Our program is losing at historic levels that not even Ken Trickey could achieve.

As JP once said about CPR, "sometimes you want a job more than it wants you back,". We crossed that point two years ago and JP chose to ignore his wisdom at that time.

Pull the effing plug

 

[IlliniCy]

But the problem with this statement is that COVID absolutely had an effect on this team. Not only do they go two weeks without a real practice.. but they have been missing a significant portion of their starting lineup for two games in a row now. Yeah TT game was a step back, but I was actually pleased with the improvement from week 1 up to the WVU, Texas and Baylor games. Then you throw the COVID situation, especially how hard it has hit the team, and what else do you expect?

Isn't this something like the first time in 50 years that UK, UNC and Duke are all missing from top 25? This is a WEIRD year, some teams have been atrocious, and some have thrived because of it, or should Coach K be fired this year too?

Let's face reality here, we are facing a 25Mil shortfall in the budget and you really think Pollard will take on the additional financial liability and risk to bring in a new coach?

If next year we don't see progression, this yes, let's move on.. but the middle of a pandemic is not the time to introduce some additional uncertainty financially.

Let's just relax, breathe, and see how the players finish out the rest of the season. Yes the team isn't good this year, but let's cheer this team on and hope for some improvement.

Uh, no.

 

[erinmd32]

Nearly his entire roster is planning on jumping ship at the conclusion of the season. Next year, if he stayed, he is starting over (again) and people like you will be making excuses for him (again) and our program fall further into the abyss and is a tougher job to recruit to than it was the year before.
The money is there- it is time to stop kicking the can down the road and end this madness. The guy is not going to get it done here- it is established and out there for all to see. Our program is losing at historic levels that not even Ken Trickey could achieve.

As JP once said about CPR, "sometimes you want a job more than it wants you back,". We crossed that point two years ago and JP chose to ignore his wisdom at that time.

Pull the effing plug

Are we sure of players jumping ship? Because I am hearing this from several people.
Also, things aren't going well when we are starting the Ken Trickey comparisons

 

[IlliniCy]

Totally fair points. And if this COVID thing never happened then I am totally on board with letting him go with what we have seen. Where I struggle with making a move comes down to the financial liability coupled with the COVID shortfall. It's pretty disappointing to me to see donors at other schools pay for coach buyouts and signing bonuses when those same schools suffered layoffs and paycuts at the start of the pandemic. How many jobs could have been saved if that donor money was out towards maintaining staff rather than firing a 6-5 football coach?

Number one goal going into next year is being as financially stable as possible. If this pandemic has taught me anything, it's that maintaining a sense of stability is critical to success.

6-5 football coach is a poor comparison. If Prohm was
.500 this year, we would be looking forward to next season. He's not, and we're not.

 

[cycloneworld]

How do you absolutely know they'll lose more next year? Do you have any data to back up that claim or is it just a knee-jerk reaction to the losses piling up? Give me the Devil you Know over the one you don't any day of the week in this financial situation.

Hell, restructure him to the Harbaugh contract, low base but highly incentivized. But to baselessly say 4000 people are not going to renew season tickets sure is a claim.

I have 4 years of data: 2017-18, 2018-2019,2019-2020, and 2020-21. Even in 2018-19, Prohm MASSIVELY underachieved with that roster. 2 NBA players, a borderline NBA player, a G-League players, and two other pros. The other 3 years, we’ve been a conference doormat.

Show me any signs that Prohm can turn this basement dwelling team into a middle of the pack Big 12 team let alone a top contender. There is none unfortunately.

 

[Cdiedrick]

There is no reason to keep him, we are one of the worst teams in the nation.

 

[cycloneworld]

Totally fair points. And if this COVID thing never happened then I am totally on board with letting him go with what we have seen. Where I struggle with making a move comes down to the financial liability coupled with the COVID shortfall. It's pretty disappointing to me to see donors at other schools pay for coach buyouts and signing bonuses when those same schools suffered layoffs and paycuts at the start of the pandemic. How many jobs could have been saved if that donor money was out towards maintaining staff rather than firing a 6-5 football coach?

Number one goal going into next year is being as financially stable as possible. If this pandemic has taught me anything, it's that maintaining a sense of stability is critical to success.

You keep talking about finances but it’s not that big of a commitment to fire Prohm. And it probably comes from donors anyway. I can’t imagine someone watching this team over the past few years and wanting more of it. COVID or not, we are staring at a 2-4 win team for an entire season here! Prohm has absolutely plunged this program from a top 1/3 of the league program to the basement. You think that is changing next year?

 

[mynameisjonas]

If we fire Prohm and hire a coach with P5 experience we can easily cover the costs. One easy way is raise ticket prices by $5 per ticket. That’s about $70,000 per game and $1.2M extra per season to pay for a quality coach And not mid major trash. I think most of us would pay an extra five dollars for a proven coach with P5 experience. There are many other easy ways to raise the money as well.

 

[Frak]

If we fire Prohm and hire a coach with P5 experience we can easily cover the costs. One easy way is raise ticket prices by $5 per ticket. That’s about $70,000 per game and $1.2M extra per season to pay for a quality coach And not mid major trash. I think most of us would pay an extra five dollars for a proven coach with P5 experience. There are many other easy ways to raise the money as well.

I don't think that we need a coach with P5 experience. There are plenty of mid major coaches that can succeed here. What we're really lacking is identity. Decide what you want to be and recruit toward that goal. We had it for awhile...four out and one in, skilled shooters on the outside, players with length that can guard multiple positions and able to switch on screens. But, Prohm has not recruited toward that. I can't tell what the plan is other than getting athletic players that for the most part can't shoot or defend. And fill with transfers.

 

[isucy86]

People that continue to blame ISU's terrible 2020/21 basketball team on the early departures of Wigginton, Lard, Halliburton and Horton-Tucker need to stop that false narrative for a few reasons:

• If a coach recruits ELITE talent they are going to leave early and the head coach knows that.
  • When Wigginton came to ISU from Oak Hill, his stated goal was to be the first NBA player from Novia Scotia. He came to ISU very open to being a one-and-done player.
  • I don't recall Horton-Tucker being as open about being a one-and-done player. But based on his jumping after one year, seems to me that was a strong consideration for Horton-Tucker (and his family, handlers, etc.) before he ever stepped foot on the Iowa State campus. It's not like THT had promises to be a lottery pick after an inconsistent freshman year at ISU. I would be highly surprised if THT kept his dreams and plans secret from Coach Prohm and his staff during the recruitment process.
  • Halliburton jumping after his sophomore year would not have been a consideration when Halliburton was recruiting and signed by ISU. But after playing on the USA National Team during the summer of 2019, he was projected as a lottery pick. So midway through the 2019/20 recruiting cycle the ISU coaching staff were well aware there was a VERY HIGH likelihood they would lose Halliburton after his sophomore year.
• If a coach recruits guys with baggage coming during their HS career, then there is a high probability they leave early. Lard was a very talented post player, but also a high risk recruit. Sometimes recruiting risks payoff with guys like Royce White, other times they don't like Lard. Nothing new, Larry Eustachy's teams fell off after Tinsley because he had a number of talented players wash-out (Chris Alexander) or never show up (Jerome Harper).
• Basketball isn't like football where a turnaround is a 3-4 year process. In basketball a coach can turn a program around quickly because it only takes 2-3 really good players to have a top 25 program. Fred Hoiberg did it in 2 years. Beard at Tech retooled his roster a couple years ago by bringing in something like 10 new players in 1 off-season.
• Lastly and most importantly, ISU isn't winless in Big12 play because of the four players mentioned at the beginning of this post. ISU is winless because of the recruiting misses over the last 4 recruiting cycles: Lewis, Griffin, Conditt, Anderson, Leech and Grill. I will give Jackson, Walker, Dubar and Blackwell too-soon-to-tell grades. But to be honest, so far I don't believe any is an All-Big 12 level player or even future starter on an NCAA Tournament caliber team.

 

[SWCy13]

Uh, no.

It’s like some people forget how awful we were last year. Or how the ‘18-19 team underachieved tremendously. Or how awful the ‘17-18 team was. Or how he couldn’t get a team with 6 future NBA guys past the Sweet 16. Or a team with 4 future NBA guys out of the round of 32 because he wouldn’t adjust until the game was nearly out of hand. It’s not a new problem.

 

[CySmurf]

One of our players hasn't murdered anyone and had Prohm try and cover it up...ala Baylor...

 

[Jer]

One of our players hasn't murdered anyone and had Prohm try and cover it up...ala Baylor...

Or maybe he’s just better at covering it up?

 

[BCoffClone125]

But the problem with this statement is that COVID absolutely had an effect on this team. Not only do they go two weeks without a real practice.. but they have been missing a significant portion of their starting lineup for two games in a row now. Yeah TT game was a step back, but I was actually pleased with the improvement from week 1 up to the WVU, Texas and Baylor games. Then you throw the COVID situation, especially how hard it has hit the team, and what else do you expect?

Isn't this something like the first time in 50 years that UK, UNC and Duke are all missing from top 25? This is a WEIRD year, some teams have been atrocious, and some have thrived because of it, or should Coach K be fired this year too?

Let's face reality here, we are facing a 25Mil shortfall in the budget and you really think Pollard will take on the additional financial liability and risk to bring in a new coach?

If next year we don't see progression, this yes, let's move on.. but the middle of a pandemic is not the time to introduce some additional uncertainty financially.

Let's just relax, breathe, and see how the players finish out the rest of the season. Yes the team isn't good this year, but let's cheer this team on and hope for some improvement.

Honestly, this argument makes some sense, but only if you truly think the team will be better next year. What have you seen from this year's team, or Prohm's track record of developing 4 year players makes you think this team will be any better? At this point, waiting another year just feels like kicking the can. It's time to look in a new direction.

 

[cincinnaticyclone]

But the problem with this statement is that COVID absolutely had an effect on this team. Not only do they go two weeks without a real practice.. but they have been missing a significant portion of their starting lineup for two games in a row now. Yeah TT game was a step back, but I was actually pleased with the improvement from week 1 up to the WVU, Texas and Baylor games. Then you throw the COVID situation, especially how hard it has hit the team, and what else do you expect?

Isn't this something like the first time in 50 years that UK, UNC and Duke are all missing from top 25? This is a WEIRD year, some teams have been atrocious, and some have thrived because of it, or should Coach K be fired this year too?

Let's face reality here, we are facing a 25Mil shortfall in the budget and you really think Pollard will take on the additional financial liability and risk to bring in a new coach?

If next year we don't see progression, this yes, let's move on.. but the middle of a pandemic is not the time to introduce some additional uncertainty financially.

Let's just relax, breathe, and see how the players finish out the rest of the season. Yes the team isn't good this year, but let's cheer this team on and hope for some improvement.

Coach K has won five national titles, been to 12 Final Fours, 12 ACC regular season titles, and 15 ACC tournaments. This might be the first time he misses the NCAA tournament after coaching a full season since 1983. NINETEEN EIGHTY THREE. Steve Prohm has missed the NCAA Tournament more times in the last four years than Coach K has in the last 30. Trying to compare Steve Prohm to Coach K is like comparing Paul Rhoads to Bill Belicheck.

 

[isucy86]

If we fire Prohm and hire a coach with P5 experience we can easily cover the costs. One easy way is raise ticket prices by $5 per ticket. That’s about $70,000 per game and $1.2M extra per season to pay for a quality coach And not mid major trash. I think most of us would pay an extra five dollars for a proven coach with P5 experience. There are many other easy ways to raise the money as well.

What you describe just doesn't happen very often. I posted earlier in this thread or another thread, but it is very uncommon for P5 coaches to change conferences.

• In the Big12 only Self (from Illinois), Huggins (K-State) and Dixon (Pitt)
• In the Big10 only Underwood (from Okie State) and Turgeon (Texas A&M)
• In the ACC only Roy Williams (from Kansas), Bennett (Wash St)
• In the SEC Cuonzo Martin (Cal), Frank Martin (K-State).
• In the Pac 12 - None

So there are only 9 current Power 5 head coaches who moved between Power 5 schools. And 3 of those guys: Huggins, Dixon and Williams went to their Alma Mater.

Other P5 coaches like Bruce Weber, Rick Barnes and Tom Crean were all fired by a P5 program and hired by a new P5 school. There are other guys who had gap periods like: Ben Howland and Bruce Pearl.

I just don't see ISU hiring a successful coach at another P5 school unless ISU is willing to pay a lot more than the coach is currently making. Your $1.2M isn't going to get it done as a lot of coaches already make more than Prohm.

The reality is ISU can hire a P5 assistant, a non-P5 head coach or former P5 head coach.

 

[Cat Stevens]

What you describe just doesn't happen very often. I posted earlier in this thread or another thread, but it is very uncommon for P5 coaches to change conferences.

• In the Big12 only Self (from Illinois), Huggins (K-State) and Dixon (Pitt)
• In the Big10 only Underwood (from Okie State) and Turgeon (Texas A&M)
• In the ACC only Roy Williams (from Kansas), Bennett (Wash St)
• In the SEC Cuonzo Martin (Cal), Frank Martin (K-State).
• In the Pac 12 - None

So there are only 9 current Power 5 head coaches who moved between Power 5 schools. And 3 of those guys: Huggins, Dixon and Williams went to their Alma Mater.

Other P5 coaches like Bruce Weber, Rick Barnes and Tom Crean were all fired by a P5 program and hired by a new P5 school. There are other guys who had gap periods like: Ben Howland and Bruce Pearl.

I just don't see ISU hiring a successful coach at another P5 school unless ISU is willing to pay a lot more than the coach is currently making. Your $1.2M isn't going to get it done as a lot of coaches already make more than Prohm.

The reality is ISU can hire a P5 assistant, a non-P5 head coach or former P5 head coach.

Iowa State is still perceived as a good job in the college basketball landscape. It will attract interest from good coaches.

but there is no way that we will pay north of 3 million a year to fill the position with a “name” coach.

there are a lot of good mid major coaches out there that will take million dollar pay raise to come to Ames.

it’s all a moot point anyway. The first call will be to TJ. Unless he turns it down, there will not be a second call.

actually, it works out perfectly for him. Someone had to follow Fred. Now that has happened, and by a coach that has never been truly popular with the fan base, people will be even more patient than they would have before.

 

[RustShack]

The buyout doesn’t matter, donors have agreed to pay it. Keeping him is less income next year than replacing him would be.

 

[ISUChippewa]

It’s like some people forget how awful we were last year. Or how the ‘18-19 team underachieved tremendously. Or how awful the ‘17-18 team was. Or how he couldn’t get a team with 6 future NBA guys past the Sweet 16. Or a team with 4 future NBA guys out of the round of 32 because he wouldn’t adjust until the game was nearly out of hand. It’s not a new problem.

I can't disagree with very much of what you wrote here, but I do feel compelled to speak up and stand up for the '17-18 team. A 13-18 overall record is nothing to write home about, and it certainly won't go into the annals of ISU basketball history as one of our better teams, but before all the injuries added up and took their toll, that was a pretty competitive team that only lost at Kansas by 5, beat Trey Young and Oklahoma at Hilton, curbstomped a ranked Texas Tech team by 18 at Hilton, and beat the yellow p!ss out of ranked West Virginia at Hilton after NWB went down for the season.

They never stopped competing either. Again, absolutely not a great or even a good season, but I think that '17-18 team would have beaten last year's team by double digits and would certainly beat this year's edition as well.