Pac-12 to decide whether to expand within a couple weeks

Beyerball

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Well I Googled "how much would Pac 12 network subscribers grow by expanding with Big 12 teams" and didn't see anything about PACN subscriber base growing by 30% minimum if it added four central time zone schools, so if you did I'd be interested in that link.

Clearly from my post that 30% was a guess on my part.. Interest is often correlated with attendance in sports.

ISU, Okie st, TT, WV would all significantly drive viewership of the PAC.

Heck viewership data alone would put these 4 schools ahead of most of the PAC outside of 3 PAC schools..

Just to edit: So you think that adding an entirely new time zone wouldn't add value to Networks and a Conference?
 

jbhtexas

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Also, I think any interest in B12/8 is 2 or 3 steps into the process. Until we hear USC, Oregon, etc. are staying in Pac12 everything else is on hold.
I agree with the bolded.

It seems a lot longer, but we are only just a little over a month after the leak about UT/OU to the SEC. The UT/OU move seems to have been finalized very quickly, but that's because talks were going on months prior to the leak.

Entities across the CFB community have expressed disdain and concern over the OU/UT/SEC/ESPN shenanigans and the direction this group is taking things. Right now, the Big Ten, Pac-12, ACC, and FOX are the ones who have to decide if they want to do anything about ESPN/SEC . If that decision turns out to be a "yes", then they need to decide what they are going to do about it. Doing something about it may require bringing in some help (like another media partner). Then, they they would get down to details, which might include what to do, if anything, with the Remaining 8.

It has been discussed before in several of these threads, but a plausible scenario is that the Big Ten/Pac-12/ACC/FOX decide to let this play out in court. In that case, we are a couple of years away from hearing anything.
 

Gonzo

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Clearly from my post that 30% was a guess on my part.. Interest is often correlated with attendance in sports.

ISU, Okie st, TT, WV would all significantly drive viewership of the PAC.

Heck viewership data alone would put these 4 schools ahead of most of the PAC outside of 3 PAC schools..

Just to edit: So you think that adding an entirely new time zone wouldn't add value to Networks and a Conference?

I never said it wouldn't. I asked where you got your 30% estimate, and it was a guess. Who knows how much value adding 4 schools in the central time zone would bring. I'm sure there'd be some. Based on your estimate, ISU, TT, WVU, Okie St. would bring around 4.5 million new PACN subscribers. Seems high.
 

TheHelgo

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I never said it wouldn't. I asked where you got your 30% estimate, and it was a guess. Who knows how much value adding 4 schools in the central time zone would bring. I'm sure there'd be some. Based on your estimate, ISU, TT, WVU, Okie St. would bring around 4.5 million new PACN subscribers. Seems high.

you can add me as one. So, 4,499,999 to go.
 

BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
I never said it wouldn't. I asked where you got your 30% estimate, and it was a guess. Who knows how much value adding 4 schools in the central time zone would bring. I'm sure there'd be some. Based on your estimate, ISU, TT, WVU, Okie St. would bring around 4.5 million new PACN subscribers. Seems high.
That would be 4.2 my Hawkeye friend. We will take the stem stuff and you can have theater questions. ;)
 

FriendlySpartan

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Is that what he told you?

you seriously think that the reporters “breaking all this news” haven’t been fed it by their sources in the conference, who are controlling the narrative?

that’s why Spartan became so obvious.
Kinda wondering about the obvious comment? I have said from the beginning that my info came from the inside and i have yet to post anything about the big ten (and expansion) that hasn't come true. I get the skepticism and I know some on here will just disagree with anything I post even though they don't have a single source saying I am wrong but I kinda thought the track record of being right would lend a little credibility.
 

Klubber

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Dan Patrick has said multiple times this morning on his show that (according to his source), the Alliance (BIG, PAC12, ACC) have zero interest in anyone from the rest of the Big12. The only interest (albeit very, very small interest) is KU because of it's basketball brand.

I was hopeful that we would find a good home a few weeks ago, but I'm starting to feel more and more like we are going to be ******.

Again. The PAC isn't going to come out and say they're interested in any Big XII schools right now in part because of the current litigation stuff with regards to OU, Texas and ESPN. They're simply not going to telegraph their intentions. Why would they?

If the PAC isn't interested in any expansion, then why do they have a committee currently looking into and vetting candidates from the Big XII? Why are they making an announcement on expansion (or not) in 2 weeks?

I mean, if they're setting an announcement to coincide with the beginning of the football season, then obviously they want to make a big splash. IMO, it's unlikely they would plan that announcement just to say, "nah, we're good."

Maybe Dan Patrick needs some new "sources."
 
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Cyclonepride

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Again. The PAC isn't going to come out and say they're interested in any Big XII schools right now in part because of the current litigation stuff with regards to OU, Texas and ESPN. They're simply not going to telegraph their intentions. Why would they?

If the PAC isn't interested in any expansion, then why do they have a committee currently looking into and vetting candidates from the Big XII? Why are they making an announcement on expansion (or not) in 2 weeks?

I mean, if they're setting an announcement to coincide with the beginning of the football season, then obviously they want to make a big splash. IMO, it's unlikely they would plan that announcement just to say, "nah, we're good."

Maybe Dan Patrick needs some new "sources."

Yep, it is in the financial interests of the PAC 12 for the remaining Big 12 teams to get a nice payday from the OU/UT settlement, as those programs are then more likely to be able to afford taking a reduced cut as part of entry into the PAC 12.
 

cyIclSoneU

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Again. The PAC isn't going to come out and say they're interested in any Big XII schools right now in part because of the current litigation stuff with regards to OU, Texas and ESPN. They're simply not going to telegraph their intentions. Why would they?

If the PAC isn't interested in any expansion, then why do they have a committee currently looking into and vetting candidates from the Big XII? Why are they making an announcement on expansion (or not) in 2 weeks?

I mean, if they're setting an announcement to coincide with the beginning of the football season, then obviously they want to make a big splash. IMO, it's unlikely they would plan that announcement just to say, "nah, we're good."

Maybe Dan Patrick needs some new "sources."

What if the Pac-12 announces in 2 weeks that it is not expanding? Would you believe that Dan Patrick is probably well-sourced then? He is one of the most prominent people in all of sports media.

If the Pac-12 says “We are officially exploring expansion and actively vetting candidates,” then I would totally agree with you and many other posters that everything up to that point was keeping things quiet, and I’d start thinking that ISU to a Pac-16 is probably likely. But if they say “We have received lots of interest. We will not explore expansion. Look at this cool alliance with the B1G and ACC though” (which I think is the probable outcome), what do you think that will mean for the Big 12?
 

Gonzo

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What makes you think that?

Comcast cut some its out-of-market coverage of BTN, then caught hell, then reached a deal with BTN to bring it back. Not sure where info that BTN has lost subscribers is coming from. If it has, I doubt it's by very much.
 

Klubber

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Kinda wondering about the obvious comment? I have said from the beginning that my info came from the inside and i have yet to post anything about the big ten (and expansion) that hasn't come true. I get the skepticism and I know some on here will just disagree with anything I post even though they don't have a single source saying I am wrong but I kinda thought the track record of being right would lend a little credibility.

But here's the thing: what have you actually posted here that wasn't already out in the news-o-sphere already. I don't recall any of your posts on realignment breaking any news or being some earth shattering scoop. It's all been conjecture based on your so-called sources, who wouldn't know and be sharing sensitive info on realignment to begin with.

The only way you'd know anything is if you were tight with AD's and school Prez's. And even then, they wouldn't be feeding you sensitive info to post on Cyclone Fanatic. Get real.

We're all greatly indebted to you because of your faux sympathy towards ISU. Maybe you should be more worried about the train wreck that is currently MSU football and that your starting QB last year was Rocky freaking Lombardi. We can take care of ourselves here, thanks...
 
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Cyclonepride

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What if the Pac-12 announces in 2 weeks that it is not expanding? Would you believe that Dan Patrick is probably well-sourced then? He is one of the most prominent people in all of sports media.

If the Pac-12 says “We are officially exploring expansion and actively vetting candidates,” then I would totally agree with you and many other posters that everything up to that point was keeping things quiet, and I’d start thinking that ISU to a Pac-16 is probably likely. But if they say “We have received lots of interest. We will not explore expansion. Look at this cool alliance with the B1G and ACC though” (which I think is the probable outcome), what do you think that will mean for the Big 12?

Any announcement will almost certainly leave them the wiggle room that they need to go in either direction. The most likely announcement seems likely to be that they're not adding teams "right now", while not ruling out anything (because they really can't add a Big 12 team until everything sorts itself out.
 
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AuH2O

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What if the Pac-12 announces in 2 weeks that it is not expanding? Would you believe that Dan Patrick is probably well-sourced then? He is one of the most prominent people in all of sports media.

If the Pac-12 says “We are officially exploring expansion and actively vetting candidates,” then I would totally agree with you and many other posters that everything up to that point was keeping things quiet, and I’d start thinking that ISU to a Pac-16 is probably likely. But if they say “We have received lots of interest. We will not explore expansion. Look at this cool alliance with the B1G and ACC though” (which I think is the probable outcome), what do you think that will mean for the Big 12?

I expect they will say that they are not exploring expansion at this time. Then we can be on the watch for what happens when the OU/UT/ESPN dust settles.

If they say we will not explore expansion, and the OU/UT/ESPN thing resolves and they hold firm on that, then we can be on the watch for when the PAC implodes because USC isn't happy with making half as much media money as Rutgers, Purdue and Vandy.

Unless this alliance produces something of significant value to USC and perhaps Oregon, there's no way the PAC stays status quo from long. And no, giving them non-con games, when they can get big-time non-con games without any help from the BIG 10, doesn't do it.
 

CloneJD

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Comcast cut some its out-of-market coverage of BTN, then caught hell, then reached a deal with BTN to bring it back. Not sure where info that BTN has lost subscribers is coming from. If it has, I doubt it's by very much.

They only brought it back on a higher teir sports pack iirc. Certainly there was a loss of some degree.
 

Number Monkey

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Its hard to track down USC's revenues, because they are private, so I dug through their Title IX filings. Reading it one way could show USC does have a bit of a money problem. When looking at football revenue, at $53M reported in a pandemic year, they were barely above Iowa State ($52m), and far below the big boys who make over $100m. Now, the Pac12 got shorted games last year, but Oregon pulled in $77m. (for reference Arizona made $38m).

That being said, they allocated $56m of revenue to "non gender/sport revenue", which leads me to believe its more of an accounting issue than financial.

In total numbers, they don't really need money and make so much off donations that they're solid. So the question becomes, is money the primary driver?

For Texas and Oklahoma, it was not, not matter what anyone says. You could remove all of the media revenues that Texas makes in a year and they would still be in the top five of total revenues. Their football team alone makes over $140m a year with only $40m in expenses. They are also in no threat to lose money any time soon with the support structure they have built into their university. So if it isn't money, why?

Exposure and Recruiting.

While TCU could make the argument, I don't think its a secret that the only school that really benefited massively from realignment in 2010 was A&M. Their wins and exposure have shot through the roof and that has impacted recruiting, where they are nabbing more of the 5 stars that Texas used to strong arm by just saying "we are Texas". Now its "Play for the SEC"

This massive increase in exposure for the rival is what drove the move. It doesn't matter if the Big 12 gave them all of the revenue, that doesn't help win the recruiting battle. By moving to the SEC and "if you can't beat them join them" mentality with the HS coaches, they should be able to "we are Texas" again.

Oklahoma, much like them moving to the South when the Big 12 was formed and destroying the OU/Nebraska rivalry, is going to go where Texas goes. The Red River and the Dallas pipeline is far to important to Oklahoma to give up. As more SEC schools are feeding on Texas, Oklahoma needed to work harder and they need access to bigger and faster D-linemen to change the narrative.

Either way, this move was about more exposure and winning recruiting, period.

So look at USC, could they use more exposure? Yeah, probably. Last year wasn't their shining moment. But are they losing recruiting battles? Not really. They own SoCal and being in the Big Ten isn't going to help that. They also already play a pretty solid non-con with games against someone big and ND every year, so a scheduling alliance won't really do much. What they need to do is win, so where can they win the easiest?

This west coast to the Big Ten conversation doesn't make a lot of sense to me, especially with the relationship that the Big Ten and Pac 12 already have for generations. I think it makes more sense for the Big Ten to shore up the Pac 12, hold hands more so they do a game or two cross over every year, guaranteeing USC a rotation of Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State, agreeing upon more academic/higher access governing rules, and strengthening the position of the Rose.

Keeping the Pac 12 alive gives the Big Ten a puppet state with 2 votes over the SEC's one. Its a smarter move over all, especially when you value more than just football revenue.
 

cyIclSoneU

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Keeping the Pac 12 alive gives the Big Ten a puppet state with 2 votes over the SEC's one. Its a smarter move over all, especially when you value more than just football revenue.

Interesting point about the number of conference votes, especially during a period of change at the NCAA level. Since each conference gets a vote, there is value in keeping around a conference that you think will support you.

If the B1G/ACC/Pac-12 ally and basically stop playing the SEC, I wonder if the SEC's best move would be - perhaps as part of a settlement - to have ESPN broker a scheduling alliance with the Big 12. What if the SEC and ESPN said, let's keep backing this 12-team, top-6-champions CFP proposal together. You can remain an 8-school conference. We will supply each of your schools with two SEC non-conference games every year (all 16 SEC schools play one; the 8 Big 12 schools each get two). That keeps you at 9 games that are locked in. Plus, with the top-6-champions CFP, not only are you likely to get one every year, but its the top 1 out of 8 that will get it - 12.5% chance. Meanwhile, ESPN will pay you XXX amount that the Big 12 can live with.

The SEC meanwhile plays 9 conference games + one Big 12 game + 2 buy games , since the B1G/Pac/ACC aren't playing them anymore. ESPN and the leagues decide on the SEC/Big 12 opponents less than a year in advance to maximize the quality games (but Bedlam being one that always happens; Mizzou plays KU, KSU, ISU a lot; Texas and A&M play Tech/Baylor/TCU often).

If the G5 leagues support the bigger CFP, too - which seems likely, as they would want a top-6-champs proposal over a 6- or 8-team CFP that the Alliance supported - it could still win out. So then that gives the B1G/Pac/ACC all the more reason to kill the Big 12 and carve it up in order to eliminate that extra conference vote.
 
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